Burning a flag: Free Speech or a hate crime?

[Oerdin]

A lot of people get upset when someone burns an American flag yet it is considered (by the courts and by US law) to simply be a form of free speech. I agree with that btw. Then you have cases like this:

Iowa man sentenced to about 15 years in prison after burning an LGBTQ flag hanging from a church

A man has been sentenced to about 15 years after burning an LGBTQ flag hanging from a church in Iowa.

www.cnn.com

A man in Iowa saw a gay pride flag on a church so he pulled it down and burned it. Now they want to sentence him to 15 years in prison for it. I agree the guy is an asshat but this seems completely disproportionate to the crime. A crime he freely admits to and denies nothing. I recall seeing video of Antifa thugs, who are all around fascist pieces of garbage, routinely stealing American flags being waved by people they disliked and burning those in public. Yet no charges were ever brought for that flag burning.

Where is the proportionality and equality is cases like this?

 

[Starship Coyote]

There isn't.

LGQBTWTFBBQ are the new protected species under the government. Can't disturb them... especially in their native habitat.

 

[jack]

Aside from your "antifa" mislabeling (it's not a movement or organization, but rather an ideaology) he was convicted of these crimes : "The 30-year-old faces about 15 years in prison after being found guilty of arson in the 3rd degree in violation of individual rights, harassment in the 3rd degree and reckless use of fire or explosives, according to court documents." If you look up the statutes, those are fairly serious real felonies, whatever the reason.

He's the one that fed the LBGTQ bs to the news, who lapped it up. He committed real crimes and is using this hate rhetoric to justify his genuine criminal activity and to deflect respnsiibility away from himself.

Obviously it's working. I ignored this "news item" because it's fake news.

 

[Oerdin]

The arson was the burning of the flag. So, yes, this punishment most certainly does not fit the crime especially since other groups (like the mentioned Antifa thugs) commit this crime all the time yet routinely get away with it.

 

[jack]

Your whataboutism is specious at best. As far as I can see you're comparing apples to oranges. What this guy did was pretty specific and more than one felony. Under the statutes involved it's actually a hate crime. I actually don't care, but the point you're making is incorrect.

 

[Charlemagne]

On the subject of Antifa, I would like to point out that their origins WERE as an organization - Antifascist Action: the militant arm of the German Communist Party in 1932. Their goal was to present an equally militant, but far-left alternative to the fascism that was on the rise at the time.

Of course, nowadays, they're a leaderless band composed of everything from people who are genuinely against authoritarianism, to eco-lunatics, to goddamn Tankies (Neo-Stalinists).

 

[Oerdin]

The current “Antifa” just appropriated an old name of a defunct group and has absolutely nothing to do with any antifascist group in history. It is literally just communist idiots trying to ride the coat tails of long dead people.

 

[jack]

The current "antifa" is an alt-right label created to smear blacks. Not much more than that.

 

[The Question]

I can't agree with that. I've seen the same photos and video of them in action as anybody else, and saw mostly white faces. That is, what the cowardly thugs show of their faces...

 

[The Question]

To Oerdin's point, though: If burning a flag is arson in the 3rd degree in violation of individual rights, harassment in the 3rd degree and reckless use of fire or explosives, then it's all of those things regardless of which flag it is.

 

[jack]

I can't agree with that. I've seen the same photos and video of them in action as anybody else, and saw mostly white faces. That is, what the cowardly thugs show of their faces...

I think I'm coming from Trump's comments about them. During the Charlottesville debacle he made several references about them being "scary black people" and his echo chamber has amplified that tone of the message. Hence my comment. But I;m happy to admit I was wrong if it's actually mostly a white movement.

 

[The Question]

To me, who it's made up of isn't of much consequence. What they do, is. Property damage and physical assault doesn't really endear any cause to me. Although I will admit to feeling a certain guilty pleasure when I see one of them get a little taste of their own medicine.

 

[The Question]

Probably this is a tangent (not that I care) but here's some interesting primer reading on antifa and what they're drawing from:

Saying You’re Against Fascists Doesn’t Excuse Acting Like One

Despite claims that Antifa fights fascism, the group's tactics actually mirror those of Benito Mussolini's regime.

www.intellectualtakeout.org

 

[jack]

Interesting read....

 

[Oerdin]

To me, who it's made up of isn't of much consequence. What they do, is. Property damage and physical assault doesn't really endear any cause to me. Although I will admit to feeling a certain guilty pleasure when I see one of them get a little taste of their own medicine.

That was very well deserved. It makes me think of John over at WF declaring his 300lb loser ass is “Antifa”, while living in his mother’s basement, and writing garbage on the internet like only white people are racist and have a collective racial blood guilt. You know, stupid racist shit like that.

 

[The Question]

The conundrum of the 21st century American communist: Racism is bad (unless it's racism against white people); sexism is bad (unless it's sexism against men). In any case, they do not practice what they preach yet won't for a second stop preaching.

 

[jack]

Is Weirdin talking about you in his post?

 

[Oerdin]

That is a different poster. I never used that name.

 

[jack]

That is a different poster. I never used that name.

I dont ever post at wordforge so I had no idea who you were referring to.

 

[The Question]

I dont ever post at wordforge so I had no idea who you were referring to.

There's a lefty Brony over there by the handle of John (AKA Amaris, if I'm not mistaken.) One of the more devout participants in WF's Commie echo chamber along with Anna (AKA Shirogayne), Ancalagon, Diacanu, and others.