Syriana

[Laker_Girl]

The latest conspiracy theory crapfest from George Clooney...I caught the tail end of an interview with some of the people behind this soon to be box office fizzle and one of the fellows intimated that, golly gee, if we'd just pay $100.00 a barrel for oil Osama Bin Laden wouldn't have a problem in the world with the United States. And if the Syrian government would just stop practically giving oil away for a night at the White House the whole world would wrap up the US up in their arms and give us a big warm hug.

Does anyone with a brain in their head believe that crap?

 

[Number_6]

Clooney's an idiot. He needs to be reminded that he's a fair to middling actor and no great shakes as a director. And that his political opinions mean jack squat.

 

[Mentalist]

No I don't. The Muslim extremists are shallow and obvious in their REAL motivations.

Basically living the life of a strict Muslim has got to be the most boring, thankless life EVER.

You have all these young men who have nothing better to do than hate because it's the most interesting thing for them to do. In their minds it's more fun to shoot and kill and terrorize in the name of Allah and basically be boys than be good little Muslims and shut the hell up and make another rock stew with pebbles and sand for desert.

So no, they will never stop because their lives suck and they might as well run around pronouncing holy wars on everything with fashion sense.

Geroge Clooney is talking out of his ass.

 

[Big Dick McGee]

As a fellow American, George Clooney has the right to express his ideas and opinions. Even when his opinions are completely and utterly wrong.

What sucks is that far too many Americans parrot the views of their favorite celebrity in some crazy attempt to feel "connected" to the celebrity. "Golly gee, if I agree with Gorgeous Georgie on everything, maybe one day we'll somehow meet and be BFF!" Sad.

What these celebrity-obsessed people need to realize is that 95% of celebrities never even went to college. I'd wager that half of that 95% didn't even graduate high school. Yet we lionize these people and pretend their opinions are worth something, simply because they're famous and we're not. I'm getting really sick of the near-fetishization of celebrities in American culture.

 

[Kerb Crawler]

Iraqi kids could benefit from pizza deliveries and video games.
Think of how much good we could accomplish if we'd establish some kind of Old-Platforms-For-Guns Exchange. I know I have a couple old gaming consoles just gathering dust that could be sent over the middle east in the interest of unity.

Fuck the government, politicians, and celebrities; Microsoft, Sony, and PepsiCo should become diplomats for world peace.

 

[Shatna]

Those estimates are hilarious. Ninety-five percent?!? I mean, come on. Sure, it's comforting to believe that these hoity-toity spoiled-brats who get to be rich and famous are stupider and inferior to us "plain folk" in every other way, but I'm afraid that's probably a tad bit unrealistic.

Clooney's opinions mean as "jack squat" as anyone else's, including those of me or BDM or Number 6, all of whom roll merrily along expressing any opinion we please. You listen or read and rejoinder or you don't, but to say that Clooney "needs" to be reminded of anything begs the question why. Who fucking cares what Clooney thinks? He lives and dies by the box office, so "remind" him by not seeing his movies.

Art and entertainment play different roles in different people's lives, but they are in the end an expression of ideas, and how the audience responds to those ideas is the essence of creative endeavors. They are one (or more) artist's view of the world, how they see things and how they make sense of people and events. They are not meant to be taken as polemics or op-eds or manifestos (and I'm talking about works of drama and fiction, not Michael Moore-type works). Those that try to are usually utter crap as art and embarrassing as polemic.

 

[Mentalist]

Clooney's opinions mean as "jack squat" as anyone else's, including those of me or BDM or Number 6, all of whom roll merrily along expressing any opinion we please.

Perhaps. but then again we don't get on TV and make a big issue about expressing our political views. It's fine to have an opinion, but when you insinuate that it means something "special" because you're famous is when it becomes a little hard to swallow.

 

[Number_6]

Perhaps. but then again we don't get on TV and make a big issue about expressing our political views. It's fine to have an opinion, but when you insinuate that it means something "special" because you're famous is when it becomes a little hard to swallow.

I'm sure Shatna will agree with you when Bruce Willis starts making pronouncements in public. Until then, he and Dennis will continue their little wank-fest at TrekBBS.

 

[Shatna]

Ha ha. "Wank fest". Guess that'll teach me to like, post stuff that's on my mind and stuff. A brilliant refutation to my arguments here, N6. Want me to pee my pants now, or save it for when you call me a "poopyhead"?

I promise and swear to you that I don't and won't give half a flying crap-ass what Bruce Willis says about any goddamn thing. If his movie looks any good, maybe I'll go see it.

Menty: we all express ourselves in whatever venue is available to us, and many of us believe our opinions to be exquisitely "special" - just read some of the posts on this board, for instance. That Clooney has a worldwide multiplex to shoot off whatever comes to his bazoo is strictly a matter of luck and market forces, and he's free to think he's special till his head falls off for all I care.

 

[Number_6]

TrekBBS is a wankfest. Just went over there today, and it's just a bunch of people agreeing with one another and patting one another on the back for poorly constructed arguments and rants.

See, the problem is that George Clooney thinks that if he is denied a public platform from which to pontificate, that his right to free speech is being denied. He thinks that if we say that Syriana is a piece of paranoid bullshit, that we are infringing upon his rights to free speech.

In short, Clooney and his ilk think that they are entitled to a public forum in which to express their ill-informed ideas.

That's the problem.

As for the average education of the Hollywood movie star, BDM is closer to the mark than you are, particularly for those who started acting at a young age. I taught in SoCal for a number of years, and I've had more than a couple of actors and actresses in my classes. Special treatment was the order of the day. The schools were courting the prestige of having an actor or actress on campus, and we were not to interfere with their getting a diploma or a degree.

 

[Laker_Girl]

^There are a good deal of actors who are intelligent and well educated, unfortunately rarely are they American actors. When people like Goerge Clooney and Tom Cruise are set to respresent the American public in the world wide market, and don't think they aren't, it isn't a wonder that Americans are a laughing stock.

 

[Shatna]

TrekBBS is a wankfest. Just went over there today, and it's just a bunch of people agreeing with one another and patting one another on the back for poorly constructed arguments and rants.

Well, tra la la. What that had to do with anything here is beyond me, but hey, thanks for bringing it up.

See, the problem is that George Clooney thinks that if he is denied a public platform from which to pontificate, that his right to free speech is being denied. He thinks that if we say that Syriana is a piece of paranoid bullshit, that we are infringing upon his rights to free speech.

I know people who think being denied access to BBSes mean they're being denied free speech. I know people who think it's a restraint on their freedom to obey stop signs or wait in line. How is Clooney's own brand of entitlement a "problem", other than his being just one more dumbass a-hole in the world?

In short, Clooney and his ilk think that they are entitled to a public forum in which to express their ill-informed ideas.

Unfortunately, public fora are open to ideas, ill-informed or otherwise. Clooney is entitled to make movies that express his views as long as the market supports him; the moment his movies don't make money he's done having any public forum on that scale. In the meantime, I can ignore him (I usually do) or I can hang on his every word. This is one price of having a free society.

That's the problem.

So we live in a world where assholes think they're entitled to shit just because they think they are. Whoopty-friggin'-do. My own life is more likely to be disrupted by someone who thinks he can cut me off at a red light or something than it is by the yammerings of a pretty boy movie star, but perhaps you and I have different kinds of problems.

As for the average education of the Hollywood movie star, BDM is closer to the mark than you are, particularly for those who started acting at a young age. I taught in SoCal for a number of years, and I've had more than a couple of actors and actresses in my classes. Special treatment was the order of the day. The schools were courting the prestige of having an actor or actress on campus, and we were not to interfere with their getting a diploma or a degree.

Even if BDM was closer to the mark than me - and I don't recall even setting a "mark", just questioning his - high school and college educations don't necessarily equal "smart". And if you wanna see young people who think they deserve "special treatment", I point thee to your average MBA or law school grad, especially the ones here in DC. I'm a musician and an artist and know more than my share of pretentious dicks (sure, including me if you want), but no more than in any other demographic.

 

[jack]

You pretend to have a dick?

 

[Shatna]

No, my dick pretends it has me. Can get very confusing.

 

[WordInterrupted]

The increasing importance of celebirty in politics is certainly not positive. However, I don't think the kind of thing you're discussing in this thread--actors making comicaly righteous speeches in interviews and at awards ceremonies--is the most dangerous aspect of celebity. Far more dangerous is when politicians rely on their fame to win elections. George Bush would never have been president of the U.S. if he hadn't had a famous father. Hillary Clinton would never have become a Senator if she hadn't been married to one of the most famous men in the world. Ronald Reagan, Arnold Schwarzenegger, and Jesse "The Body" Ventura all rode their fame to victory, and all were incompetent lightweights. A proven ability to govern is much more important than having a famous name or having appeared in a few bad movies.

That said, I did like Clooney's Good Night, and Good Luck. I've never heard him hold forth on politics, and I don't really want to, but I think it's great that he's taking on political issues in his movies. With all the stupid fluff films that come out every month, I admire people who try to make movies about issues that are really important to us. Storytelling--in the form novels, movies, and plays--is one of the most useful ways to work through political issues.

 

[The Question]

Storytelling--in the form novels, movies, and plays--is one of the most useful ways to work through political issues.

One of the most useful? I don't think so. One of the most biased? Without a doubt. Suppose I were to write a movie about the Holocaust. See the problem with media as educator now?

 

[jack]

What would you call it, That's Not Smoke, It's Fog?

 

[Morrhigan]

Maybe "Adolph and the Misunderstood Chocolate Factories"?

 

[The Question]

What would you call it, That's Not Smoke, It's Fog?

Since the stuff you're referring to is invisible, I don't think either would work. And I'll assume that you do see why screenwriters shouldn't be where we get our education from, political or otherwise.

 

[Hambil]

screenwriters shouldn't be where we get our education from

Or teachers (lefties), or the news (lefties), or books (lefties).