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Art vs Story in Comics

If one half is really good, or great, then the other can be mediocre, or even bad. I can usually deal. Of course there are limits. Like early Spawn, and All Star Batman for example. And, alot of early 80's Batman/Superman comics as well. Look great, but bad reads. Jim Aparo beautifully drew some shitty Batman stories.... As Curt Swan did Supes..
 
Definitely the story drives the art. It would almost have to. Bissette's a good example of that. Look how he handled Moore's writing for Swamp Thing for example. Kirby's another, the way he handled the Inhumans/Surfer theology.

Jim Shooter would probably (along with the entire Valiant line) be the underpinning to the argument.

A great story will get you through bad art, better than great art will get you through a bad story.
 
The whole Venom development with Spiderman was great writing....the whole le "Spider-Clone" rewrite was shit, by comparison.
 
jack said:
Jim Shooter would probably (along with the entire Valiant line) be the underpinning to the argument.
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Most of those books were unreadable, even when Shooter was at the helm. The good valiant books (Magnus, Archer & Armstrong, Rai, etc.) were all drawn by talented artists (BWS, Dave Lapham, and to a lesser extent Sean Chen).

I don't think that story can drag along bad art any more than stunning artwork can drag along a weak story. Both have to be good for the book to be worth reading.
 
By the by, Shooter/Lapham's Warriors of Plasm was a really good read. I wish that one had lasted beyond the handful of issues they released.
 
tiny said:
Most of those books were unreadable, even when Shooter was at the helm. The good valiant books (Magnus, Archer & Armstrong, Rai, etc.) were all drawn by talented artists (BWS, Dave Lapham, and to a lesser extent Sean Chen).

I don't think that story can drag along bad art any more than stunning artwork can drag along a weak story. Both have to be good for the book to be worth reading.
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I hate to break this to you, but Warriors of Plasm was one of the FUNNIEST (albeit unintenional) books ever produced. It wasn't the art that made it funny.

The "good" Valiant books weren't the leased ones, except for the Smith Solars, which degenerated pretty quickly, even Miller couldn't bail that shit out, and Smith's art was VISIONARY in that series.

I remember Harbinger, Rai and Dr Mirage being the standouts. All Shooter originals.

We won't even discuss the 3D writing of the Legion up against that 60's cardboard art, and he was just a kid then.

Good comics are STORY DRIVEN, with rare exceptions. I know this, because I can produce great comics, as long as someone else draws them :D
 
The Dork Lord said:
Story for me. That's why I never bought those Image comics back in the 90's.
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The art in those was pretty terrible too, though.

I think if you're talking about indie comics, the story usually takes precedence over the art... in sooperhero comix, it's more of a tossup. In any case, the storytelling is what's most important, and that's always a combination of art and words.
 
jack said:
I remember Harbinger, Rai and Dr Mirage being the standouts. All Shooter originals.
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Rai was the best of the bunch.

Dr. Mirage was created by Bob Layton. Shooter had already been forced out by then.
 
I liked the "sparcity" of the art in that title.

I still have a complete Valiant run. Back in the store days we had too many of all of those books, so it was pretty easy to put together a set.

I still love those first dozen Solars
 
During the 90's there were a lot of good story-driven lines, but they were drowned out by the Image lineups with art-driven books. In the very short term, art was the driving force.

But one could argue that the lack of cohesive story in those same books helped cause the crash of the industry, as more and more focus was placed on gimmick covers, variant art and "flash" while story was all but ignored.

To use an example or two: when fans of the genre get together and talk about the "greatest of all time" comics, the ones that get mentioned first are titles like Watchmen, Maus, Dark Knight Returns, Miracleman, etc. All story-driven, some with very minimalist or (to some) sub-par art. People can talk for hours about these stories, and do.

What you DON'T hear is lengthy discussions about art-driven books like Gaiman's "Death" books, or McFarlane's stuff on Spidey and Spawn, Bill Seinkiewicz arty stuff, et al. Everyone knows they're nice work, pretty to look at. But to pontificate at length on the artistic quality, use of color and cross-hatching blah blah blah? Doesn't happen outside specific groups like fellow artists. For the layman, story is the bottom line.
 
Not to mention that "keys" are all story driven...like FF 48, Hulk 181 etc etc. The best, most memorable books are all keys to the storyline, especially if they form the "myth" of the character.

And you're right about your recent observations about Dr Strange....very astute.
 
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