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Bush = Carter?
- Thread starter Ancalagon
- Start date
Marquis De Sade
I came for the spankings
Very simplistic comparison.
Carter was outright weak. Bush, irrespective of the veracity of his actions, led the USA through a series of strategic/long term foreign policy choices that future administrations will just have to cope with.
Carter was outright weak. Bush, irrespective of the veracity of his actions, led the USA through a series of strategic/long term foreign policy choices that future administrations will just have to cope with.
Ancalagon
I'm not wearing any panties!!
Bush didn't inherent a demoralized, undermanned and under equipped military like Carted did either. Had Carter had SOAR then, people would think very different of him.
And Carter was pretty damn ruthless. By sending in the CIA into Afghanistan to overthrow the Communist Regime, he pretty much sealed the fate of the Soviet Union. His words to Brzezinski "Give them a Vietnam."
Marquis De Sade
I came for the spankings
I would have understood this argument being used in favour of Carter sometime in the nineties, but not now, not anymore.
In hindsight, it's crystal clear that Carter's sponsoring of Afghan militants willing to fight the Commies (the very groups that were the precursors to Taliban) , and his indifference towards the Iranian Revolution turned out to be two huge fuck-ups.
Ancalagon
I'm not wearing any panties!!
Carter is not responcible for Bush I and Clinton's fuck up. And the fall of the Soviet Union easily outweighs Al'Quida.
On Iran considering the state of the post-Vietnam military, it's not like he had any ability to do much more than covert ops. See victim of circumstance.
When it came to rebuilding the military, you gotta give him credit for Have Blue. It was a risk, but it more than paid off.
chucklemeister
Loveable fuzzball!
I think Bush the younger as more along the line of Gerald Ford. Obama will be more like Carter.
Colonel Kira's Left Tit
Bearded Belly of Bajor
For all his missteps, foibles, and dry-drunk debauchery, at least The Shrub was never attacked by a Giant Swimming Rabbit.
At least not yet.
At least not yet.
Volpone
Zombie Hunter
1) Bush is almost certainly less naive than you are proposing.
2) What sources are you reading, where Carter has been "vindicated"? If anything, history has shown him to be even more inept and ineffective than we'd realized at the time.
And maybe the military Bush inherited wasn't "demoralized, undermanned, and under-equipped" to the degree Carter's military was, but it was certainly undermanned and under-equipped and not exactly brimming with optimism. I know. I was there.
Volpone
Zombie Hunter
Carter decided he didn't like the Shah. So he yanked all funding to Iran. Left high and dry, our staunchest, most able supporter in the Persian Gulf was overthrown. US diplomats were held hostage for 444 days by radical Islamic fundamentalists while the US looked on helplessly. Carter got caught totally flat-footed on Afghanistan and the US looked on, helplessly.
Well, not entirely helplessly. He did fuck up the dreams of a bunch of US Olympians by boycotting the 1980 Summer Olympics.
Well, not entirely helplessly. He did fuck up the dreams of a bunch of US Olympians by boycotting the 1980 Summer Olympics.
Sarek
Vuhlkansu Wihs
So was I. I spent 22 years active duty in both the Air Force and the Army. Sense I retired, I've worked as a civilian for the military.
The difference between the military during the Carter and Clinton administrations and the military during Bush Jr. is during Carter and Clinton's time, the military had to use the funding and equipment it had in a responsible manner and there was accountability.
Sense Bush has been in office, accountability has gone out the window and financial mismanagement is second only to corporate America's.
Laker_Girl
Mrs. Big Dick McGee
You're the only person that is or was in the military I've ever heard give an argument for Clinton's under funding of the military.
You are such a tool sometimes.
You are such a tool sometimes.
Sarek
Vuhlkansu Wihs
Just calling it as I see it.
In the last four years, I've seen more 'pleasure' purchases by brass and senior enlisted than I have functional, usable equipment.
Just at the installation I work at, we purchased a multimillion dollar computer system for installation security. It was set up to monitor perimeter alarms and other secure facilities on base. Hasn't worked since day one. There was no warranty or maintenance agreement purchased with the equipment. The company that manufactured it admits it was a peice of crap, but the Air Force has no intention of holding the company accountable.
In 2004, we purchased two 1.5 million dollar vehicle mounted ground based radar systems. The two vehicles were lemons out the dealers door, the computers never worked and the software was full of bugs. The equipment has been sitting in a storage area because there's no money to fix it.
Again, no accountability for the companys that made this shit and no action taken to fix it.
In the last 4 years, money has spent to remodel two maintenance facilities on base. Within a year of completion, both buildings were then torn down to make way for new buildings that were the same square footage and provided nothing in the way of modernising the facilities. They do however have 18 foot high glass walls and 8 foot high solid sheet glass doors. In what amounts to an engine repair shop. It did however win a few awards for looking pretty.
They started a project to put up a new front gate and entry facility on base to replace the original that had built in the 1950's. Half way through, the money for the project was diverted to remodel the wing commanders office. The remodel included swapping the commanders office area with his secretary. A wall was moved, some new electrical done. There was no increase in floor space, but, there were new outlets put in for the three 57 inch plasma TV's that he now has. Oh, and nice glass particians in the hallway so they can have the same cool glass doors that they used in maintenance. Not to mention that this was the third remodel of that particular office in the last 8 years. One of the perks of being a wing commander, you can remodel as much as you want and take the money from anywhere you want and no one will question it.
And we still have a partially constructed main entry for the base. Been that way for 2 years now.
I won't even start on the landscaping projects that have been done and redone.
I took a tour of our base warehouse the other night. We have over eighty 32 plus inch plasma TV's waiting to be installed on base. The other night, I was in base ops. The flight crews were in the reception area watching TV on four plasma TVs. A 57 inch with 3 other 39 inch plasmas around it. All tuned to The Simpsons. The flight crew has satellite television as does the Op's commander. Complete with the Playboy channel.
Volpone
Zombie Hunter
There was a book, put out by the Army War College in 1981, called "On Strategy: The Vietnam War In Context". It is out of print now, but you can find it in its entirety online if you dig a little.
One of the points it argues is that you need to run a military in a very different way during wartime than during peacetime. COL Summers argues that you need to realize that there will be waste and inefficiencies during a war; that is just the cost of doing business.
One of the points it argues is that you need to run a military in a very different way during wartime than during peacetime. COL Summers argues that you need to realize that there will be waste and inefficiencies during a war; that is just the cost of doing business.
dogbert
King of Sarcasm
Very opposite. Carter was honest and genuinely religios. Bush was dishonest and used religion to suit his needs. Also Carters economic problems was inherited from Nixon when he took us off the gold standard in 1970 which caused the inflation of the 1970's. Bushs economic problems were caused by Bushs ideology of deregulation and let everything run amok.
Sarek
Vuhlkansu Wihs
Hambil
I AM A GOLDEN GOD
It's really very simple. Bush has four letters, Carter has six. Bush is worth 9 points in Scrabble, while Carter is worth 8. 9 - 8 = 1, subtract that from Carter's six letters and Carter has five letters, which is one more than Bush. Bush served 2 terms, and Carter served 1. 2 - 1 = 1, which when subtracted from Carter's now reduced five letters becomes four letters, exactly like Bush.
Clearly, they are identical is every way.
Clearly, they are identical is every way.