"I'll take 'Man's Laughter' for $1,000, Alec"...

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Zombie Hunter
..."That's 'Manslaughter,' Alec. And it's 'Alex,' Alec."

Just read an editorial about how Alec Baldwin shouldn't be tried for manslaughter for pointing a real, functioning firearm at someone and pulling the trigger, relying on someone telling him the weapon was safe. No. For a number of reasons.

If you make a living with firearms, you should know how to handle them safely and you should treat every weapon as if it is loaded. I will allow that I don't know the details of whether he needed to pull the trigger on the pistol during the rehearsal. And if you gave me an expert witness that said to get the shot right he absolutely had to pull the trigger while the pistol was pointed at the cinematographer, that would count for something. As it stands, I would think you could point the gun a foot to the left or right and still have the shot work. But I'd be willing to hear evidence on this at his trial.

That said, there is no way in Hell that someone is going to hand me a firearm and say "don't worry, it's not loaded." In the Marines, when you hand someone a firearm you remove the magazine, open the chamber, physically look in the chamber and say "clear," show the chamber to the person you're handing it to and they will confirm "clear." Only then do you assume a gun isn't loaded. And even then, you don't cock it, point it at someone and pull the trigger. Again, acting is a different world and they want realism so they have "dummy" rounds that the gun is loaded with. That said, the proper way to receive a gun at the start of the scene is to have them show you the empty chambers and then show you that they are loading the gun with dummy rounds as you watch them load it. And even then, I'd be inclined to point it at the ground and pull the trigger on each "dummy" round to be safe.

All that said, if Baldwin were just some n00b schlub extra or something, they might get some leeway. But he's been in movies for a lifetime. He should know what he's doing. And he's important enough that he can say "no, we're going to take a little extra time to make sure we do this right."

Which brings me to the next point: Not only was he the actor, he was the producer. He had a say in hiring the armorer they hired. At the time of the shooting, I read an article where one experienced armorer had passed on the job because he said they were cutting too many corners to have a safe shoot. So they hired someone who'd never done the job before and pressured her to cut corners. They'd already had at least 2 other negligent discharges on the set and, IIRC, some of the crew had quit over unsafe working conditions. So all that comes back to that, from what I know about the incident, Alec Baldwin is guilty of manslaughter. Again, I'll admit there may be evidence I don't know and facts that I don't have, but on the surface he cut corners on safety to save money and then he pointed a real, working firearm at another human, cocked it, and pulled the trigger. That's negligent homicide in my book.
 

The Question

Eternal
In the Marines, <excellent breakdown of proper handling>
I knew that much after a one hour N.R.A. gun safety course I went through at age ten. For Alec Baldwin not to have known the proper way to handle a firearm is improbable in the extreme. I agree entirely; negligent homicide is the most charitable reading of this whole affair.
 

jack

The Legendary Troll Kingdom
More like "constructive intent" as opposed to negligent homicide.

Taking his word at face value, for better or worse.
 

Volpone

Zombie Hunter
Elsewhere I heard t2he argument "how could an actor know what a blank looks like?"
1) If you're handling a real operational gun, pointing it at people, and pulling the trigger, it's your responsibility to learn what a blank looks like. Especially if you're the lead actor with decades of experience and are a producer: "How do you know that's a dummy round. Show me."
2) [Point's gun at the ground, operates the hammer and trigger] "click, click, click, BANG!" "WHAT THE HELL!?" It's a revolver. Take 15 seconds to dry-fire the entire cylinder. Still not 100% certain there isn't a live round in there (you could have a weak primer or a light hammer strike), but probably 99.99%. At USMC armories, they'll have a "clearing barrel." It's a 55 gallon oil drum full of sand with a hole cut in the top. I don't remember ever having to use it, but maybe they make the MPs and other people who are more likely to be carrying a loaded weapon use it. After unloading, you point the barrel into the, um, barrel, and pull the trigger. If, somehow, you missed a live round in the chamber, the bullet goes into the sand, not into another person.
 

Oerdin

Active Member
In the military I was responsible for anyone shot by a round my rifle fired even if, which luckily never happened, it was a negligent discharge. The fucker is responsible.
 

C-40

NEW AGE POSTING

Alec Baldwin news: Actor in Instagram spat as Rust to resume filming despite charges


Alec Baldwin has shared his first family photo since it was announced he faces involuntary manslaughter charges. The actor, who will continue to film Rust despire being charged in the on-set shooting of cinematographer Halyna Hutchins, posted the image on Instagram. It shows his wife Hilaria Baldwin, and their six-year-old son Leo. Melina Spadone, an attorney for the production of the western, confirmed the news on Friday to CNN, adding that “on-set safety supervisors and union crew members will bar any use of working weapons or any ammunition.” Baldwin has repeatedly denied any wrongdoing and maintained that he was told the gun was “cold”.

Key points
  • SAG-AFTRA condemns Baldwin’s charges in blistering statement
  • Mickey Rourke defends Baldwin over charges
  • Alec Baldwin vows to ‘fight’ involuntary manslaughter charges
  • Read the DA’s reasons for charging Alec Baldwin in full
  • Alec Baldwin tweets about David Crosby’s death hours after being charged in Rust shooting

Click Here For Complete Story
 

jack

The Legendary Troll Kingdom
I hope Baldwin gets the max because he murdered that women and her family deserves justice.

Ok. Murder? So your position is he meant to kill her? Murder has a specific legal definition.

"the unlawful premeditated killing of one human being by another."

Negligent homicide is one thing. Yes he should have been aware of wtf he was doing. But he planned this in your opinion?
 

C-40

NEW AGE POSTING

Alec Baldwin will remain in lead role of ‘Rust’ despite being charged


Alex Baldwin will remain as the star of the movie “Rust” as it restarts production, the movie’s lawyer has confirmed. The 64-year-old actor will be charged with involuntary manslaughter in the 2021 death of Halyna Hutchins, despite previously insisting he did not pull the trigger. Hutchins’ widower Matt, who shared his 10-year-old son Andros with the late cinematography, will stay on as the film’s executive producer a role he took on as part of the wrongful death lawsuit that was settled for a undisclosed amount in October. “Rust” will also see its director Joel Souza return, despite being injured in the shooting. “The film is still on track to be completed,” Rust Movie Productions attorney Melina Spadone said in a statement.

Click Here For Complete Story
 

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Zombie Hunter
This guy sums it up nicely:
Actor Michael Shannon, who handles guns on the set of his own films, spoke out about the Baldwin shooting and on-set safety protocols, saying the problem boils down to making the movie "cheap."

"This is what happens when you lowball and cut corners and hire people that may not be qualified, and pay them next to nothing, and make the movie on the cheap," he told The Chicago Tribune on Tuesday.

Baldwin was the producer who decided to pass on a more experienced armorer and then undermine the one they hired. Then he pointed a functional firearm at someone and pulled the trigger. He is responsible for pulling the trigger and he is responsible for there being a live round in it--whether he knew there was one or not. Also responsible for using real firearms instead of some kind of props that wouldn't be capable of firing a live round. I'm sure they make things like that. I'm also sure they cost a lot more than just getting real guns.
 

jack

The Legendary Troll Kingdom
Baldwin was the producer who decided to pass on a more experienced armorer and then undermine the one they hired.
This was the point another reporter was making about it. I don't think things will go very well for him at trial. Lots of animosity on the set.

Why was Baldwin involved in such a low rent production, anyway?
 

Volpone

Zombie Hunter
This sums it up pretty nicely:
"By not receiving the required training on firearms, not checking the firearm with the armorer, letting the armorer leave the firearms in the church without being present, deviating from the practice of only accepting the firearm from the armorer, not dealing with the safety complaints on set and/or making sure safety meetings were held, putting his finger on the trigger of a real firearm when a replica or rubber gun should have been used, pointing the firearms at Hutchins and Souza, and the overall handling of the firearms in a negligent manner, Baldwin acted with willful disregard for the safety of others and in a manner which endangered other people, specifically Hutchins and Souza.
"Baldwin's deviation from known standards, practice and protocol directly caused the fatal death of Hutchins," the documents state.
 

jack

The Legendary Troll Kingdom
Seems like a fair charge.
 

Volpone

Zombie Hunter
OK, there was a mistrial or prosecution dropped the case or whatever. Then they decided they had new evidence and it is back on. Something like that. And it got me thinking about previous on set firearms deaths I remember. Way back when, John Eric Hexum killed himself on the set of a TV show, goofing around and pointing a pistol loaded with blanks at his head and pulling the trigger, apparently not realizing that the concentrated and directed gunpowder explosion from a blank is dangerous if you're too close. That would probably be negligent homicide, but since he killed himself I guess it's no harm, no foul.

The more memorable one was Brandon Lee in "The Crow." If I remember that one correctly, a prop revolver was loaded with fake bullets for a shot and was later loaded with blanks--but they forgot to take the fake bullet out of the chamber the blank was loaded into, effectively creating a live round. I think everyone just chalked that up to a tragic accident and I don't think anyone was ever charged, tried, or anything over it. Thinking about that, I'd say the prop/weapons person was negligent but I never thought the actor who pulled the trigger was. If that's true, why would Baldwin be negligent?

Partly, I would argue, because Baldwin wasn't just an actor. He was the star and he was a producer. He had say in the hiring and the safety on set. There had been previous negligent discharges on the set. The killing happened during a rehearsal so there was no need for bullets--dummy, blank, or otherwise--to be loaded in the gun. It didn't even have to be a real gun for what they were doing--but Baldwin, as I understand it, insisted. The gun wasn't meant to be fired during the rehearsal and certainly didn't need to be pointed at anyone when the trigger was pulled (it's conceivable that the hammer needed to be de-cocked between each take, which would require pulling the trigger). So I'd say the level of negligence on the part of Baldwin was far higher than the actor in the Brandon Lee incident. Besides, after Lee's death, there's no reason anyone in a movie or TV show should be accidentally shot to death by an actor.
 

jack

The Legendary Troll Kingdom
Yeah, I was surprised at them re-starting the charges. No double jeopardy?
 

Volpone

Zombie Hunter
I'm not a lawyer, but I think if the trial never came to a verdict they can bring charges again. You can't be retried for something you've been found not guilty of. You can't be retried for something that a judge dismissed with prejudice. Any other time they can opt for another trial.
 

C-40

NEW AGE POSTING
Alec Baldwin indicted on involuntary manslaughter in 'Rust' shooting
A New Mexico grand jury indicted the actor on Friday after hearing evidence in a closed hearing.


Alec Baldwin is headed to trial over the death of cinematographer Halyna Hutchins, who was killed in 2021 after the actor's prop gun fired a live round of ammunition on the "Rust" film set. The decision to indict Baldwin was announced Friday after a New Mexico grand jury heard evidence presented by special prosecutors Kari Morrissey and Jason Lewis. He was charged with one count of involuntary manslaughter. "We look forward to our day in court," said Baldwin's attorneys, Luke Nikas and Alex Spiro, of Quinn Emanuel. If convicted, Baldwin could face up to 18 months in prison. A trial date has not been set. In October, two sources told NBC News that Baldwin and the special prosecutors had discussed his taking a plea deal but that it was rescinded in the days before their announcement to bring the case before a grand jury.

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