Back that up.
You are familiar with the 1948 War of Liberation?
Yeah, I am. I want you to present a source. You're like Wordin, more than a little. You'll rattle off historical fact, but without producing a straight source. Doing it that way allows you to throw your in any number of non-facts along with the good stuff, so present a straight source. That's what I mean when I say, "back that up" -- not, "tell me even more of
your idea of how it went."
Funny how you worry so much about my intelligence when you claim ignorance of basic Middle East history.
Wrong-O, bub. I know my middle east history -- you don't think that I would after arguing on the subject this long? What it is that I want to know is where you got the figures you're using.
No, they're just subjected to institutional racism, regardless of the equality Israeli law supposedly guarantees them.
You have an interesting criteria for human rights, and very selective, considering the arabs living in Israel have innumerable more rights than any arab living in the surrounding arab regimes. That's indisputable.
No, it isn't indisputable. Back it up.
Is that why you complain so loud about Israel?
No, I complain so much about Israel because Israel is financially supported by Americans when we've never been given a vote on it and get subjected to bad shit if they don't support it -- and in consequence of supporting it, Americans have been murdered. That's the primary reason, at least. If our government would divorce itself from Israel, and the American people allowed to wash their hands of it, then terrorists might cease to see us as a target as well.
And how precisely would you suggest they go about doing that?
Recall the cheers of the Palestinian refugees in the various arab wars of liberation from the last century, all of which ended in failure. In all of those wars, 1948, 1956, 1967, 1973, the Palestinians were "let down" by their "brother" arabs. In 1991, Palestinians were filmed cheering from the rooftops as Saddam's SCUD missiles landed in Tel Aviv. Again, they thought someone else would come along and give to them what they could not do themselves. Today, Iran and Syria fund armies by proxy amongst the Palestinian refugees, and once again, the Palestinians believe this outside assistance will somehow drive Israel into the sea.
And how do you know that they believe Israel will be driven "into the sea"? Are you psychic, or are you just high?
That's a victim mentality, and it will never end unless the refugees either agree to 1) Permanently settle in the lands they squat in now or 2) agree to a lasting peace with Israel and live together.
What about their right to "defense"? No? Not happening for them damn dirty A-rabs? Your double standard is simply amazing.
Given the election of Hamas and the good P.R. Hezbollah enjoys, neither option is desired by the Palestinians. They don't want peace, so Israel gives them war. (Which of course, people like Question then blame Israel for. That knee jerks pretty automatically for you, doesn't it?.)
Hmm, let's see. The British defeat the Ottoman Empire. After awhile, they decide to create the Mandate of Palestine, which is supposed to be for Jews and Arabs. The Jews start hauling people in by the thousands, the British say, "Hey! Slow down, you're gonna piss off the Arabs who live here too!" The Jews use
terrorism to drive the British out, use
terrorism against the Arabs around them, start grabbing land like mad, their neighbor nations start a war to contain them. Seems to me that Israel gives their neighbors war,not because their neighbors want war but because Israel wants their shit.
Oh, yeah. Crack. Gotta be. "They will have a victim mentality unless they stop having a victim mentality." is what you basically just said, and I suppose that through the veil of your obviously chemically-induced stupor you thought you were saying something profound, rather than something profoundly stupid.
So all right-thinking people blame Israel for any troubles in the Middle East, whereas anyone who supports them (and can list their reasons for doing so) must be on crack.
No, right-thinking people blame Israel for what Israel has earned blame for, and Israel has earned blame for quite a fucking lot of shit.
Gotcha. Your dismissiveness is not a measure of intellect, although it is a measure of snobbery. They're not the same, Question.
It's not dismissiveness, it's derision with a healthy portion of disdain mixed in for good measure.
I see. So you'll argue for Israel's "right to defend itself" by blowing up civilians and neutral parties left and right, but in your opinion the Palestinians have no right to resist what basically amounts to apartheid.
Palestinian refugees have stated as plainly as they can that they do not seek peace with Israel, do not recognize Israel, and agree with their allies in Syria and Iran that Israel should be exterminated.
You ignored the entire point of that. And if you're going to make claims about what people have said, you need to provide quotes and demographics to...
back... that... up.
You, Question, refuse to accept this basic premise in all of your criticism of Israel, which can be summarized by Israel's refusal to do as their enemies demand.
Actually, Israel refuses to do pretty much anything
anyone asks of them -- including the U.N., which makes it uproariously funny when they turn around and ask the U.N. to do shit for them.
You already know their demand, Question, not peace, but the extermination of Israel.
Really! Who says that's their demand? And if someone busted down your front door, kicked the shit out of you and then declared they lived in your place and threatened to shoot you if you resisted, are you saying you
wouldn't want such a person deadized?
So by what rationale do you base your criticism of Israel? Certainly not by anything said by her enemies.
"Her" enemies? Yeah, you're more than a little obvious now. Pack up your flag, go home, you're not making any progress here now.
And it's not like Israel has roads that are off-limits to non-Jews, or any of a number of other blatantly racist practices that would have the western world up in arms if the Arabs tried them.
"If the arabs tried them". Okay, I gave you the benefit of a doubt, but it is clear you absolutely know nothing of the living conditions of Jews (or Christians) in any arab country in the entire region. There's no "if" about it. I can recommend a travel book by Paul Theroux entitled "The Pillars of Hercules", which will give you a wonderful education on the cultural mores of muslim countries all along Northern Africa and the Israeli area.
Scuse me, but when did we get on to how bad it is in mu-slime countries? Your attempt to sell me on the idea that non-Jews have it good in Israel because muslims have it worse elsewhere isn't going to fly. You can't excuse human rights violations from one party by saying "but there's less than over here..." They're still happening. Institutional racism is institutional racism, it's still wrong -- and as a matter of fact, when the American people are the ones making its continuation possible, the American people have a right to demand accountability for it.
Kind of like how Zionists use the Holocaust to guilt-trip the entire western world into giving them weapons that they then turn around and use on innocent people, at the same time it lulls millions into a mental slumber in which the homicidal maniacs we make possible go unnoticed. That's a victim mentality, and it's one you've obviously bought into up to the hilt.
I haven't bought anything to the hilt. I'm not jewish. I don't hate arabs. I don't hate muslims. And I don't expect Israel to be an American-style democracy, as you seem to do.
It's paid for with American dollars. Americans have every right to expect a return on their (involuntary and mandatory) investment.
I wonder why you're not equally concerned with human rights in arab countries by arab regimes, and can only conclude that a racist notion of "brown people" is covered therein by your acceptance of life under arab theocracies.
Oh, I am concerned with that. But, first of all, it's
a different subject. And second of all,
our leaders proclaim loud and long that we don't support them. Last, when our government has supported them in the past, as with supporting Hussein against Iran, we ended up paying for it in blood later -- just as we paid for our support of Israel in blood on 9/11.
You hold Israel to a higher standard, I guess that's an acceptable view. I simply cannot see the benefit in the United States or the West favoring arab dictatorships over Israel.
You're missing my contention, which is that we shouldn't be supporting
anyone in that fucking cesspool. Not Iran, not Iraq, not Saudi Arabia, and not Israel.
None of them.
Israeli suicide bombers aren't trying to crash passenger jets into skyscrapers, their imams are not preaching hatred across the world and death to the west, their young people are not strapped bombs to themselves and blowing up IEDs via cell phone.
No, they're not -- they're using American weaponry, which means they can do that same kind of destruction against similarly innocent people, and far worse, with no risk to the people pulling the triggers. And the Arabs know where those weapons come from, which puts each and every one of
us on the shit list as much as the ones who pull the triggers.
I can list the reasons I support Israel over their enemies. Yet you can only list the reasons you hate Israel. That difference betrays your weakness in the debate, because you know that suicide bombers are indefensible.
Which is why I don't defend them.
No wonder you do nothing but talk about Israel. Because you know you cannot defend their enemies by any stretch. Even as victims.
Oh, as victims yes I can. And have.
Just do yourself a favor, repeat this phrase: "Hallowed are the Ori."
Just go ahead, it's really all you've been doing anyway.
