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Nigger Riots In Toledo

The Question said:
Apples and Oranges.

Why is it apples and oranges? Of all religious faiths, woudn't you expect a catholic priest to shun gays? The Pope has told the entire gay community their going to hell, what they do is evil, on and on.

Is it a southern thing? Baptist? Sorry, apples to apples in my eyes.


You would hope -- but would you expect?

See above example. We don't have to hope if we have forward thinking men of God. If all of the people who claim to see through the eyes of God treated everyone equal, then hope would become expectation.


And their point was roundly proven, wasn't it?

Probably not, because you're forgetting the second thing they were protesting -- police apathy in enforcing the law on behalf of white residents. Tell me you think the police would let skinheads get away with anything, when those same police actually violated those Nazis' First Amendment right to peacably assemble.

The police broke up two factions of people rioting, not the Nazi's right to assemble. Did they break up the march when it first began? No. Did the authorities turn down the march permit when the Nazi' asked for one? No. If the police didn't want them there, then they never would have been given the permit to assemble in the first place.
 
Atomic Weggie said:
Why is it apples and oranges?

Because Southern Baptist preachers have a known tendency to be, on average, far more fundamentalist than Catholic priests. That's why.

See above example. We don't have to hope if we have forward thinking men of God. If all of the people who claim to see through the eyes of God treated everyone equal, then hope would become expectation.

But they don't, which is why expectations are what they are, and not what we'd like them to be in order to avoid conceding a self-evident point.

The police broke up two factions of people rioting, not the Nazi's right to assemble.

You are flatly, 100% wrong.

Detroit Free Press said:
(Source.)

On Saturday, the National Socialist Movement was in Toledo to protest what members say is an increase in gang violence among black residents they say have terrorized the north side neighborhood's white residents.

Mark Martin, 42, an Ohio spokesman for the group, said more than two dozen members of the NSM gathered at the parking lot of Woodward High School in north Toledo, where they were going to start their mile-long march through the neighborhood about 11 a.m.

Across the street, about 100 counterdemonstrators had gathered. The two sides hurled racial insults at each other for more than hour.

Martin of Covington, Ohio said as soon as the rioting began a few blocks away, the police chief cancelled the march and the group members left.

As a result, he said he did not see the melee that broke out after 11 a.m. and lasted until about 6 p.m.

"We do not advocate violence," Martin said. "We are white separatists. We are not about killing anybody."

Bill White, a Roanoke, Va., resident, and national spokesman for the Minneapolis-based NSM, blamed the incident on the police.

White said he was in the staging area surrounded by officers who stood between his group and the counterdemonstrators when police ordered him and his members to leave immediately or face arrest.

White said police escorted his crew to their cars and they left. None were injured or arrested, he added.

"They want to blame us for disagreeing with them," said White. "It's a typical ploy. ... The police were the ones who turned this into a mistake. They thought they would embarrass us."

Did they break up the march when it first began? No.

No, they did not permit it to begin at all.

Did the authorities turn down the march permit when the Nazi' asked for one? No.

No permit was required.

If the police didn't want them there, then they never would have been given the permit to assemble in the first place.

You don't need a permit to walk down the sidewalk.
 
The Question said:
Then until I see you pro-actively speaking up against racism directed against whites, a sense of fairness and equality might compel you to restrain yourself from bestowing a guilt trip on white racists that you're not generous enough to extend to racists of every other stripe.

Did you read my post Question? I just said I am against any racial violence, no matter what side of the fence it comes from. White, black, whatever.

Does racism against whites exist? Of course, we're not exempt from racism. But you act like black racism is justified. So are your views equal as well Question? Ahh, now you see my point. It's not a two way street with you and Coyote, and thus my problem comes to fruition.
 
The Question said:
You don't need a permit to walk down the sidewalk.

I don't know of any city that doesn't require some sort of permit to have a parade, march, peaceful assembly, etc.

The city needs to approve so that they may provide the approved date, location and police presence if needed
 
Atomic Weggie said:
Did you read my post Question? I just said I am against any racial violence, no matter what side of the fence it comes from. White, black, whatever.

Does racism against whites exist? Of course, we're not exempt from racism. But you act like black racism is justified. So are your views equal as well Question? Ahh, now you see my point. It's not a two way street with you and Coyote, and thus my problem comes to fruition.

My views are equal. They're free to look out for the well-being of their people, and I am free to look out for the well-being of mine. They're free to express pride in their heritage, and I'm free to express pride in mine. They're free to come to whatever conclusions they choose, and to speak on them as they see fit. And so am I.

Now you're free to try to lay a guilt trip on those who exercise these freedoms -- and those of us who do are free to use logic and evidence to justify our conclusions. And if that isn't good enough for you, we're free to tell you to go keister a bicycle rack. ;)
 
The Question said:
They weren't having a parade. They showed up, stood in a parking lot, and were ordered to leave.


See, maybe they should have gotten a permit first. Any unauthorized assemby is going to be broken up.

You are also missing my point and avoiding my questions. I'm not saying that what happened in Ohio was right, I'm saying how Coyote presented it to us was wrong.

Now I'd like you to come out and say you are against all racial violence Question, but you can't.
 
The Question said:
My views are equal. They're free to look out for the well-being of their people, and I am free to look out for the well-being of mine. They're free to express pride in their heritage, and I'm free to express pride in mine. They're free to come to whatever conclusions they choose, and to speak on them as they see fit. And so am I.

Now you're free to try to lay a guilt trip on those who exercise these freedoms -- and those of us who do are free to use logic and evidence to justify our conclusions. And if that isn't good enough for you, we're free to tell you to go keister a bicycle rack. ;)


Hold on, where does using derogatory words like nigger fit into your "logic" and "evidence?"

That word is used to make you feel superior to another person or race. Putting down others to lift yourself up. If that's expressing pride in one's heritage, then your heritage is a sad sad place to be.

I'm saying there is a civil and decent way to have race discussions. Punching people in the face with racial slurs is not one way.
 
Atomic Weggie said:
See, maybe they should have gotten a permit first. Any unauthorized assemby is going to be broken up.

"Unauthorized assembly"? Exactly which part of First Amendment Right To Freedom Of Assembly did you not quite catch?

You are also missing my point and avoiding my questions. I'm not saying that what happened in Ohio was right, I'm saying how Coyote presented it to us was wrong.

So this whole thing is just a big old bitch about Style Over Substance, then.

Now I'd like you to come out and say you are against all racial violence Question, but you can't.

Why can't I? I can say my ass launches Winnebagos into Julia Roberts' scrotum if I want to.

But as a rule, yes -- I am against violence, of any kind. Interestingly enough, so are the Nazis.
 
Atomic Weggie said:
Hold on, where does using derogatory words like nigger fit into your "logic" and "evidence?"

That word is used to make you feel superior to another person or race. Putting down others to lift yourself up.

Actually, it's more accurate to say that it's a quickhand means by which to discern black people who are living up to their racial stereotype from black people who are not doing so.

I'm saying there is a civil and decent way to have race discussions. Punching people in the face with racial slurs is not one way.

Why not? First of all, if someone feels something strongly, why should they speak all listlessly and half-heartedly, just to spare someone's feelings? Second, if the person you're talking to is that thin-skinned, you're doing them a favor by helping them build callouses.
 
The Question said:
"Unauthorized assembly"? Exactly which part of First Amendment Right To Freedom Of Assembly did you not quite catch?

Are you young Question? Do you really not know there is paperwork involved to assemble on public property?


Why can't I? I can say my ass launches Winnebagos into Julia Roberts' scrotum if I want to.

Now that I can believe.

But as a rule, yes -- I am against violence, of any kind. Interestingly enough, so are the Nazis.

I bet a few million Jewish people might disagree with that comment.
 
Nazis, assuming for a second that they a valid group, should be free to protest / rally / whatever, as long as they conform to the laws guiding such demonstrations.

That said, I think 21st-century Nazis should not be allowed to demonstrate because they advocate violence against others -- just like some "screw whitey" black group advocating violence against whites should not be allowed to demonstrate. Just like a "burn the electricians!" group should not be allowed to demonstrate. I think laws need to be enacted in localities that allow rallies advocating violence, because to allow such nonsense is stupid and unnecessary.

The point is that the state's real legitimate premise for lawmaking is protection of the people. Inasmuch as Nazis are legitimate parties to political (or social) discourse, they are entitled to demonstrations. To the degree that they advocate violence in their speech, their speech should be restricted. Incitement to violence is not the kind of speech protected by the first amendment, kind of like shouting "fire!" in a crowded building.
 
SilentBtViolent said:
Nazis, assuming for a second that they a valid group, should be free to protest / rally / whatever, as long as they conform to the laws guiding such demonstrations.

That said, I think 21st-century Nazis should not be allowed to demonstrate because they advocate violence against others -- just like some "screw whitey" black group advocating violence against whites should not be allowed to demonstrate. Just like a "burn the electricians!" group should not be allowed to demonstrate. I think laws need to be enacted in localities that allow rallies advocating violence, because to allow such nonsense is stupid and unnecessary.

The point is that the state's real legitimate premise for lawmaking is protection of the people. Inasmuch as Nazis are legitimate parties to political (or social) discourse, they are entitled to demonstrations. To the degree that they advocate violence in their speech, their speech should be restricted. Incitement to violence is not the kind of speech protected by the first amendment, kind of like shouting "fire!" in a crowded building.

Uh...in what part of the interview with the NSM rep did you see any advocation of violence against blacks or anyone?
 
CoyoteUgly said:
Uh...in what part of the interview with the NSM rep did you see any advocation of violence against blacks or anyone?

They're trying to gain legitimacy and maintain their status as a legal group by chilling out on the violence talk.

Uh...in what part of the 20th century were you in a coma?
 
SilentBtViolent said:
They're trying to gain legitimacy and maintain their status as a legal group by chilling out on the violence talk.

Uh...in what part of the 20th century were you in a coma?

Red herring argument. Would you please answer my question?
 
Atomic Weggie said:
Are you young Question? Do you really not know there is paperwork involved to assemble on public property?

Walking down the street in a group (NOT the same thing as a parade) may require paperwork, but it does not require anyone's permission.

I bet a few million Jewish people might disagree with that comment.

Are you talking about the six million dead ones who, statistically, did not even exist? I'll take that bet.
 
CoyoteUgly said:
Red herring argument. Would you please answer my question?

No red herring. I'm pointing out that you're an idiot for saying that a spokesperson defines anything resembling the truth. Just because you don't believe in the tanks running through the streets of Baghdad doesn't mean all is well with the regime, Bob.

But you are boring, so I'm done here. I just wanted to inject some sanity to a largely-inane thread. However, randomly tossing out my philosophy on racism sounds like fun so here goes.

Racism is the refuge of insecure or unstable individuals. The unsophisticated idea of racial superiority is laughably false, HILARIOUS to hear defended by someone who has bought totally into it, and mind-numbingly ineligant. I don't care to source the fact that it's been debunked by modern science, nutjobs hear what they want to hear. UFOs are TERRIFYING!! Just ask the whackos. BIGFOOT AND NIGGERS ARE RUINING OUR COUNTRY!!! Fruitcakes, seriously. Social problems and skin color have nothing to do with each other.

So, If you are insecure and feel the need, go find your solace in hating another race instead of yourself. Do your best to become the next Hitler, and resist all impulses to slit your own wrist -- it's just the booze talking when you get that impulse, and it has nothing to do with the fact that you hate those fucking niggers. Just be aware that some of us are very gainfully employed going through your trash, email and phone calls with a fine-toothed comb. So double-check that tax return, Cleatus.

An audit can be a BIG surprise when it happens!!
 
SilentBtViolent said:
They're trying to gain legitimacy and maintain their status as a legal group by chilling out on the violence talk.

Or maybe they genuinely aren't violent, as evidenced by the fact that they didn't just all show up and kick the living shit out of the gangbangers without so much as a "Hihowareya".

Uh...in what part of the 20th century were you in a coma?

Wait, are you wanting to talk about 20th century Nazis or 21st century Nazis here? Could'ja make up your mind, please?
 
SilentBtViolent said:
No red herring. I'm pointing out that you're an idiot for saying that a spokesperson defines anything resembling the truth. Just because you don't believe in the tanks running through the streets of Baghdad doesn't mean all is well with the regime, Bob.

But you are boring, so I'm done here. I just wanted to inject some sanity to a largely-inane thread. However, randomly tossing out my philosophy on racism sounds like fun so here goes.

Racism is the refuge of insecure or unstable individuals. The unsophisticated idea of racial superiority is laughably false, HILARIOUS to hear defended by someone who has bought totally into it, and mind-numbingly ineligant. I don't care to source the fact that it's been debunked by modern science, nutjobs hear what they want to hear. UFOs are TERRIFYING!! Just ask the whackos. BIGFOOT AND NIGGERS ARE RUINING OUR COUNTRY!!! Fruitcakes, seriously. Social problems and skin color have nothing to do with each other.

So, If you are insecure and feel the need, go find your solace in hating another race instead of yourself. Do your best to become the next Hitler, and resist all impulses to slit your own wrist -- it's just the booze talking when you get that impulse, and it has nothing to do with the fact that you hate those fucking niggers. Just be aware that some of us are very gainfully employed going through your trash, email and phone calls with a fine-toothed comb. So double-check that tax return, Cleatus.

An audit can be a BIG surprise when it happens!!

Oh, look, a big, fat, steaming ad hominem. I never would've expected that. :roll:
 
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