So this is how democracy dies

Hambil

Hambil

I AM A GOLDEN GOD
This isn't a joke anymore people. This is insane. This is dangerous. This is how democracy dies.

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The government has been secretly collecting records of ordinary Americans' phone calls in an effort to build a database of every call made within the country, it was reported today. AT&T, Verizon and BellSouth telephone companies began turning over records of tens of millions of their customers' phone calls to the National Security Agency program shortly after the September 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, reported USA Today.
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Indeed.

Frontline and Cisco's complacency with voice 'fingerprinting' of dissident coversations held over IP type phones. It HAS occured there, it CAN occur here. And with Bush's ability to hang on after Gitmo and Wire Tapping (not to mention Eminant Domain of private property for Tax Revenue issues...not Bush's directly but the Court he's been buliding upheld Stanford Ct's case).
-SB
 
I don't care if the next president is Republican or Democrat. I don't care how the mid-term elections go. Put aside all the other issues - abortion, taxes, the war... Put them aside because none of it matters is we don't have freedom. On this at least, let us join hands.

Our government wants to create a two tier internet.
Our government wants goggle and other companies to turn over records of searches.
Our government is performing wiretaps on American citizians without court order.
Our government is keeping a database of ALL domestic phone calls.

And this is just what we know about. Please, let's set aside our differences and stop this.
 
Meanwhile, the Justice Department has abruptly ended an inquiry into the warrantless eavesdropping program because the NSA refused to grant its lawyers the necessary security clearance.
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So even the Justice Department cannot get the NSA to comply? Congress can't get it's requests fulfilled, Justice can't either... Who is oversight here? The Press can report anything they want, but if no one can bring the agency to accountability, what good does it do? Our rights are already gone, if none of our elected Representatives can get answers.
 
I'm buying cases of MRE's, under a false name of course, guns, solar pannels and a cabin kit to build up in the back country of Alaska.

Now all I need is a bunch of women to keep me warm for the 10 months of winter.

We are all doomed, the only thing we can do is Flee!
 
^ Not that they ever did [to me anyway]. Sure they are fanatics, but then, who cares, they only want to be left alone to live their lives. Nothing wrong with that.
 
I agree. But I also think that the more that comes to light about what the current administration is doing, the less fanatical the survivalists will appear. I wonder if that's really the message our government intends to send us? :)
 
No. Because Survivalists don't pay taxes.

Then politicians would have to get real jobs.

That would move them into the private sector.

We don't want that.
 
Hambil said:
I don't care if the next president is Republican or Democrat. I don't care how the mid-term elections go. Put aside all the other issues - abortion, taxes, the war... Put them aside because none of it matters is we don't have freedom. On this at least, let us join hands.

Our government wants to create a two tier internet.
Our government wants goggle and other companies to turn over records of searches.
Our government is performing wiretaps on American citizians without court order.
Our government is keeping a database of ALL domestic phone calls.

And this is just what we know about. Please, let's set aside our differences and stop this.
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On this, we totally agree.

The only people who can rein in Bush and get him under control would be Congress, and the only people who can persuade Congress would be We The People.

There are two options, in my opinion, and I'm easy either way:

One is the democratic removal of all incumbents through the election process. Simple: don't re-elect anyone. It's a clear cut message.

The second is...and I'd like to remind anyone reading this (especially you law enforcement types) that it's perfectly within my First Amendment rights to discuss this...I just can't advocate it or conspire to do it: the elimination of 1/2 of Congress through quick and decisive measures in order to put the fear of God into the other half.

It's actually doable, if you think about it. 535 members of Congress. Let's say 300 even just to be thorough. Five-man squads for each of about 300 Congressmen...that's 1500 people. Think there aren't 1500 men or women in the US willing to do the job? Think again. Home security for congress is a joke.

Again, I'm good with either course.
 
I think we need to look beyond just those we elect to Congress, and to the money that pays their way. It makes no difference who we vote for if both choices are preselected based on whether or not they meet the financiers' approval.
 
CoyoteUgly said:
On this, we totally agree.

The only people who can rein in Bush and get him under control would be Congress, and the only people who can persuade Congress would be We The People.

There are two options, in my opinion, and I'm easy either way:

One is the democratic removal of all incumbents through the election process. Simple: don't re-elect anyone. It's a clear cut message.
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OMG, what are the chances we'd think exactly [and I mean exactly] alike on this. I say FIRE the lot of them. If any of us did our jobs as badly as Congress, we'd be homeless and unemployed. FIRE them all. Once we do that JUST once; JUST ONCE mind you, every damn one of them will remember who put them there and who can FIRE their asses again if they don't do their jobs. END OF STORY

The second is...and I'd like to remind anyone reading this (especially you law enforcement types) that it's perfectly within my First Amendment rights to discuss this...I just can't advocate it or conspire to do it: the elimination of 1/2 of Congress through quick and decisive measures in order to put the fear of God into the other half.

It's actually doable, if you think about it. 535 members of Congress. Let's say 300 even just to be thorough. Five-man squads for each of about 300 Congressmen...that's 1500 people. Think there aren't 1500 men or women in the US willing to do the job? Think again. Home security for congress is a joke.

Again, I'm good with either course.
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Damn CU.. just damn.
 
Big business certainly has it's hands in this, I agree. The problem is our politicians need big money to run for office.
 
The Question said:
I think we need to look beyond just those we elect to Congress, and to the money that pays their way. It makes no difference who we vote for if both choices are preselected based on whether or not they meet the financiers' approval.
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I think upsetting the whole process by replacing any of them that don't do their job, is a damn good start. Money and special interests may get someone elected, but if we replaced those that didn't do their jobs, money wouldn't keep any of them there. Special interests need to keep and maintain politicians.

What would you suggest? Money and power are going to find their way back into any reform you might suggest. We need something that keeps our Representatives in *our* pocket so to speak. That'll never happen unless we exercise the at least one of the only two powers we have--our vote.

And I suggest, voters make the fact that they are going to remove all incumbents obvious. One time, I emailed my Councilman every day to let him know if he didn't take up a certain issue, I see to it that he was not re-elected. AND that I would organize a boycott in the District so that no one else voted for him either.

Those are the only two powers we have to wield, the vote and a boycott. They are more powerful than we realize, but not many understand how powerful it is when organized. Put them together and boycott all incumbents and maybe you'd be talking. The newly elected bunch would have only one term [or less if we recalled] to DO THEIR DAMN JOB!

If you began by actually paying attention to the challengers, not from the Major parties, but maybe Independents, then made the boycott vocal in your community, Representative *might* take notice. It would take one sweeping election though, to make a dent.

We need a voter revolt.
 
Hey Hambil!

So, you don't want the muslim scum wiretapped, huh? Do you feeeeel it violates their rights for the government to listen into to the plots to behead infidels and blow things up?
 
They have yet to realize that the low voter turnout IS a sign that We, The people are disaffected by how they are handling themselves.

That not voting IS a protest.
 
Caitriona said:
OMG, what are the chances we'd think exactly [and I mean exactly] alike on this. I say FIRE the lot of them. If any of us did our jobs as badly as Congress, we'd be homeless and unemployed. FIRE them all. Once we do that JUST once; JUST ONCE mind you, every damn one of them will remember who put them there and who can FIRE their asses again if they don't do their jobs. END OF STORY
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I've already been in correspondence with one of my Senators over the immigration issue. Said senator gave me an answer on the issue I didn't like...I emailed back and said my vote would be going elsewhere and ADDITIONALLY I would actively speak out against said senator in the upcoming election and that I didn't care if the opponent was named Adolf Mother Fucking Hitler.

Well, I didn't say "mother fucking."

Damn CU.. just damn.
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Distasteful, yeah. Might interfere with TV schedules, sure. Not as mind-numbing as NBA basketball, true. An option? Possibly. Right now, it's all theory.

And theoretically, I can name two people locally...off the top of my head...besides myself who have the training to conduct an ambush. In truth, it takes little more than strong resolve to kick a door in and pump some bullets into a skull....at least from my viewpoint.

But I've said too much, I think...might be making people nervous. It's not good to make the sheep nervous.
 
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