The Young Conservative: A profile

[TJHairball]

There is a culture being sold to America, and the young are buying wholesale under the Republican "Fox News" label. I don't know any other terms to describe it as, because that's the correlation.

Let's dispense for a moment with discussing what armchair warriors describe as "their" party's ideals, Democratic or Republican... and start describing what the young of each do. Good morning, responsible and irresponsible adults of America... let's talk about personal responsibility and sex before marriage.

Let's talk about the young conservatives, and how it is that student-oriented high school and college organizations like "Campus Crusade for Christ" are, to quote several of my conservative exemplars (both responsible and irresponsible), rapidly becoming the place to look for sex. A few of the more sincerely religious sorts seem concerned about this, of course, but they're a minority of a minority.

I'll start with a number of examplar young Americans, anonymized to protect the subjects of my survey on the topic. The good, the bad, the ugly... I'll give you a fair sample of what today's moderately successful teens and young adults are like, using several clusters of mostly-conservative youth...

Meet JA, a self identified conservative. Lushing his way through school on his rich parents' money and partying constantly, he was teased mercilessly by his fellow conservative youth when his girlfriend decided to "re-virginize" their relationship - "It's not like you really become virgins again when you stop having sex!" His friends would best characterize him as a drunk and an asshole. He is, however, widely admired by his friends for his ability to exceed two minutes in a keg stand.

Meet JB. JB was firmly in support of Bush in this last election. He is, however, usually high, drunk, or both. He smokes more pot than the average young hippie of today, deals drugs on the side. This cheerful fellow is open-minded, however; when some of our other respondents were complaining about "dirty hippies," JB was the first to point out that "hippies take baths too," and that there was absolutely nothing wrong with "banging a hippie chick." He may be most easily identified by his frequently used phrase "Fuck the cops." A firm believer in driving under the influence who knows where to find a traffic lawyer, JB is the fella to go to for a hookup if you're in trouble.

Meet JC. He's a clean-cut athletic young man who doesn't drink at all. He identifies himself with Republicans rather than Democrats; very religious, he has every intention of going into the ministry. He is devoted and faithful to his girlfriend, whose parents (for some strange reason) do not appear to approve of him during our survey period.

Meet JD. I'll lay it right on the table right now - JD is known as what we might delicately refer to as a "man-whore" or "player." A heavy drinker and an even heavier partier, JD exercises an ability many taller men envy - picking up strangers in bars, at parties, etc etc etc. Cute, charismatic, and a natural leader, he was willing to confide in us that if his girlfriend got pregnant, that would probably be "what it takes for me to settle down." He is currently on track to graduate after only seven years of partying hard. Politically vocal, he is all about supporting the troops.

Meet JE. JE is a nice young man, who sometimes wishes he could be like JD. He isn't. Although he loves the booze and professes to love the ganja on occasion, like JD (albeit not as much as JB), he's usually a good deal more sober and doesn't sleep around. He identifies himself as generally libertarian and is firmly aligned against Microsoft, and firmly for the development of alternative energy sources.

Meet JF. She's a sorority girl known for her love of partying; during the time of our examination of the topic, she partied down a lot with JD and JB. I'll take this moment to note that the "greek" systems at public universities are widely stereotyped in a particular way. Social fraternities, staffed largely by conservative youth; throw huge parties; sorority members, meanwhile, are known as "sorostitutes" in the vicious criticism levelled at them by most of their more liberal competitors.

This sterotype falls apart at many schools, particularly private schools where the Greek system is widespread among the student body.

Meet JG. JG is a crazy fun dude, who identifies himself as highly religious and christian. He refuses to identify himself as conservative or liberal. He doesn't drink, doesn't smoke, and isn't known for womanizing, although he has many female friends.

Meet LA. LA likes to party too, but he's liberal. Well, ok, he doesn't smoke or do drugs, but he does like to party. Really. Come on, believe me! Actually, scratch that, he's Canadian, I shouldn't've mentioned him, but the point is that most young men (ranging from high school dropouts to colleg graduates) like to party.

Meet LB. LB identifies herself as conservative. Fond of club sports in college, she's slept with roughly half her male teammates since coming up to college outside of the supervision of her parents. Before losing her virginity, she had a new boyfriend every two weeks.

Meet LC, a close friend of LB's. Identifying herself as a moderate, she doesn't drink, doesn't sleep around, and meets regularly with prayer and christian groups. She "can't wait" to meet the man that she will marry, but does not date.

Meet LD. Noted for her self-description as a "gay man trapped in a lesbian's body," she could not be described as anything but liberal politically. This young woman, at time of last examination, was involved in a continuing multi-year stable relationship with an unassuming young man.

Meet LE and LF, a noted couple. LE identifies himself as Republican unabashedly and frequently derides liberals. Universally noted as an asshole, even by his wife LF (who loves him regardless), this "conservative" is not a christian conservative. LF is best described as a kind-hearted and not particularly political woman. Their sexual adventurism during the early "orgy" stage of their relationship is legendary in group L.

Meet another couple - LG and LH. LG and LH both identify themselves as conservative; LG keeps talking about rapidly becoming an atheist in reaction to LH's "fundamentalist conservative" parents. They sleep in the same bed, although they never have sex. LG, who has managed to get LH to start drinking and get used to churches that allow women to wear pants to church now and then, says he regrets having already lost his virginity before meeting LH. They intend to get married, but have not yet.

Meet LI. A 26 year old liberal for whom most of the Democratic party is far too conservative, she believes in not having sex until she is married - to woman, man, or multiple of either - that she believes she will live the rest of her life with... and, unlike many conservative young women professing this, seems to have stuck to this belief firmly

Now, I could go on and on about this... or start running around with numbers and statistics... but there's a particular model I've seen develop. It's a worldview.

In some ways, this appears to have arisen out of the homosexual being the public enemy for the christian right; young men are expected, in this "conservative" paradigm, to be horny and have no restraints with regard to sleeping with women. It is the duty of the women to "land" a man, reform him into a civilized being. Young "conservatives" are generally not expected to avoid sexual activity. You're young; it's your time to be reckless, party hard, get plastered, and make mistakes you'll regret later. You're supposed to be irresponsible.

Anecdotal evidence talking to 18-25 year olds who grew up in "conservative" communities reveals many are appalled at the number of their former church-companions who got pregnant out of wedlock; this is firmly supported by a study following up on "abstinence-only" sex education programs, universally instituted by more "conservative" communities - as well as the school-independent "promise" pledges - only increase the risk of STD transmission and pregnancy, and that such youth do not show any reduction in sexual activity down the road. (Meanwhile, religious groups noted for being more liberal than the Southern Baptists, such as Unitarian Universalists, do not seem to have significant teenage pregnancy problems. There are other issues, of course, but that's well beyond the scope of this paper, which is studying a single culture.

All the complaints about irresponsible teens who get pregnant? Wake up, conservative adults... it's a problem of the conservative model. Most young conservatives are at best paying lip service to "personal responsibility" here. Most of those young people who are restrained in their behavior are more religious than political, often identifying themselves as politically moderate and avoiding at-length discussion of politics.

"But aren't these studies biased? There's a bunch of other differences in the communities!" Sure. The big one is cultural... and that's my whole point. There's a culture of irresponsibility attached to the Republican/conservative label.

 

[Friday]

Wow. A taste of reality for all the conservatives out there.

Thanks, TJ....

 

[Number_6]

And all this information comes from where, exactly?

And why have you mistakenly chosen to define conservatives in terms of religion or morality? There are other ways of being conservative, you know.

 

[Number_6]

Wow. A taste of reality for all the conservatives out there.

Thanks, TJ....

Yeah, right. Reading something and agreeing with it does not truth make.

 

[Friday]

And all this information comes from where, exactly?

And why have you mistakenly chosen to define conservatives in terms of religion or morality? There are other ways of being conservative, you know.

However, religion and morality are a few of the criteria used to define conservatism. You cannot throw out a slice of pizza because it doesn't include the whole pie.

And no, agreeing with what TJ posted does not make it true. However, why would he post a false report? I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt.

 

[Peter Octavian]

However, why would he post a false report?

Why would Michael Moore edit movies in such a way as to alter the truth and context?






The answer to both: You can't whip up righteous indignation if the truth isn't inflammatory enough. In order to sustain the kind of attention that this mindset needs to survive, you have to sensationalize in such a way that people on each side are spoiling for a fight, even the fence sitters.

 

[Number_6]

One, there is no link to his source. If the information has been compiled by him personally, I'll want to know exactly how it was compiled.

Two, it sounds like your standard stereotypical anecdotes, used to prove that conservatives are secretly evil and immoral. Based on my experience with the 18-22 year old set for the last fifteen years, I'd have to say he's either carefully picked people who will confirm his prejudices or he's lying.

 

[Friday]

Why would Michael Moore edit movies in such a way as to alter the truth and context?

Oh, c'mon. Stop with the rhetoric. You have no proof about this.

The answer to both: You can't whip up righteous indignation if the truth isn't inflammatory enough. In order to sustain the kind of attention that this mindset needs to survive, you have to sensationalize in such a way that people on each side are spoiling for a fight, even the fence sitters.

Spoiling for a fight, or exposing a truth the other side might not want to acknowledge?

 

[Friday]

One, there is no link to his source. If the information has been compiled by him personally, I'll want to know exactly how it was compiled.

Fair enough.

Based on my experience with the 18-22 year old set for the last fifteen years, I'd have to say he's either carefully picked people who will confirm his prejudices or he's lying.

You've kept track of every one of you student's political leanings? No one fell thru the cracks or anything?

 

[Peter Octavian]

Oh, c'mon. Stop with the rhetoric. You have no proof about this.

Don't I?

I've got 24 years experience in audio and video editing. Did I do it professionally, no, but I've gotten paid to do it, and I'm pretty damned good at it.

That being said, it doesn't take an expert to watch "Bowling for Colombine" and see the edits which don't match (for instance, pay attention to the clock on the wall behind Charlton Heston during his interview, for one that even a rank noob like you could spot.)

So, until you care to pay attention, you really need to lay off telling me to "Stop" talking about something which you know nothing about.

Michael Moore is slopping down at the same trough as Rush Limbaugh. Until sensationalists shut up, there's no hope for forward progress.

 

[Friday]

So, until you care to pay attention, you really need to lay off telling me to "Stop" talking about something which you know nothing about.

I've sat in on professional editing sessions, Peter. I know how it's done. I might not do it for a living either, but I have more than a passing knowledge of the skill. So never presume the person you're talking to has no frame of reference.

I have not checked out the clock thing. I will tho. See? That's me giving you the benefit of the doubt. Amazing how that works, eh?

Michael Moore is slopping down at the same trough as Rush Limbaugh. Until sensationalists shut up, there's no hope for forward progress.

You might have a point about sensationalists in general. I'm just not conceding that Moore is a sensationalist.

 

[Peter Octavian]

Peter. I know how it's done. I might not do it for a living either, but I have more than a passing knowledge of the skill

Then how could you miss all of those incongruent edits?

I'm just not conceding that Moore is a sensationalist.

That's because he's the liberal messiah, and when you make it clear that you believe he can do no wrong, there's no need to extend you the benefit of a doubt.

 

[TJHairball]

And all this information comes from where, exactly?

And why have you mistakenly chosen to define conservatives in terms of religion or morality? There are other ways of being conservative, you know.

I haven't. I've identified conservative or moderate based on how people identify themselves. Note particularly that the individuals I identified as highly religious christians, not all are identified as conservatives.

My examples include the libertarian variety of "conservative" as well as the religious variety; I didn't go into it here, but example LE is notably atheistic.

Bear in mind that (a) I'm not going to identify my "sources" because I compiled this information myself, and am not about to blow the real identity of any of the people I've pointed to. As I said, though, I could go down the entire list of other examples... and yes, some of the ones pointed out here (such as the 26 year old who still believes in sex before marriage) came to mind first because they are such striking examples.

The fact of the matter is that liberal or conservative... most of today's young people are quite inclined towards partying and personal irresponsibility.

The fact of the matter (review all the examples, I've tried to provide a fair sampling) is that there are good and bad sorts all over the political map... and I've also chosen to back up my thesis using some well-known peer reviewed studies on the "personal responsibility" (regarding sex) of youth as sorted out solely by their affiliation with certain "rank and file" conservative features, such as the Southern Baptist conference, abstinence education, etc.

I have noted stereotypes as stereotypes, but you don't need to go past examining widely used blog/personal site resources (exploding among the 18-25 age bracket) to see what they're based on. The stereotypes about fraternal organizations, for example, are very well born out at some universities... and not at all at others. Number 6, I believe you teach at some particular university; I don't know where it falls on that spectrum.

There's something else you might like to keep in mind as you accusing me of manufacturing my examples (I could add to that list hundreds more, all real):

Take two of the more notable conservative partiers on my list... Mr. "Fuck the cops" and Mr. "Slept around a lot." Now, as far as I'm concerned personally, they're great guys - just not very responsible... and as far as any police officer is concerned, they're such fine upstanding young men. (Well, except for the occasional officer who does something like pull them over for a DUI, which rather prejudices officers against them in those cases.) They take care to come across as responsible young conservatives when they're dealing with professors, police officers, employers, etc - because it's a good idea. It wins them lots of points.

Take pot as another example. Bright young fellows of all affiliations know how to make sure there isn't any trace in their system when they're taking drug tests for employers, the military, sports officials, etc, but that doesn't stop them from enjoying it the rest of the time.

Personally, I find it ironic to find that now, all these so-called "liberal" girls are blasting largely conservative sorority girls for being "sluts."

Come on. What happened to sexual liberation?

It's become the status quo. You want to conform to tradition? Tradition is now to have sex.

To add on a moment about what I've always viewed as the conservative outlook for women, although it's most clearly seen in the highly religious types I mentioned previously, who often don't(!) identify themselves as conservative. (This undercuts my thesis slightly, I know.)

It's that a young woman is nothing if she doesn't have a boyfriend. Your purpose as a woman in life revolves around getting married and having kids. Some women talk about their future husband as if he were a specific person, even though they don't truly know he even exists...

...but I found in the course of my sorting through the data that many of these women didn't identify themselves as conservative. Many called themselves moderate or apolitical; some identified themselves as conservatives, but not enough for me to claim that it's truly a conservative feature.

 

[The Question]

And all this information comes from where, exactly?

And why have you mistakenly chosen to define conservatives in terms of religion or morality?

Because human beings are inherently lazy, intellectually. "Religious Right" will never die as a catchphrase, not because its truth outweighs its fallacy but merely because it alliterates and is therefore easy to remember.

The fact of the matter is that liberal or conservative... most of today's young people are quite inclined towards partying and personal irresponsibility.

Of course, people who actually are conservative, as opposed to those who simply latch onto the label, would tell you that it is our actions which best indicate our attitudes. Based on their actions, how many of the people surveyed would you categorize as being conservatives?

 

[MessengerX]

I've talked with right wingers who hate Bush and Fox News just as much as the left. This eternal left/right fued on TK has an interesting '1984' quality to it.

 

[TJHairball]

MessengerX - I've noted this too. If I had asked more questions, I might be able to establish a real - rather than purely conjectural - correlation between Fox and the culture indicated, as opposed to just "people who identify themselves as conservative," but that's well beyond the scope of what I've been doing here.

I should note for the record that my sample is notably biased regionally; most of the sample (although far from all of it) comes from "the South," i.e., former Confederate states, and the West Coast is particularly underrepresented in the examples here.

But then, I ask this question: Is there any region in which any specifically "conservative" or "Republican" culture would be more evident than the deep South, Bible Belt, etc?

Of course, people who actually are conservative, as opposed to those who simply latch onto the label, would tell you that it is our actions which best indicate our attitudes. Based on their actions, how many of the people surveyed would you categorize as being conservatives?

TQ, TQ, TQ...

When you define "conservative" as being responsible, of course conservatives will be responsible... by definition. It's true - practically tautologically - but ultimately a meaningless expression. Ask Number_6; he can explain exactly why selecting examples based on their matching what you say is conservative will result in you confirming your opinion.

I could do the exact same thing using my own outline as the "true identifier" of what conservative really means and confirm my results that way... or take my ideals as a liberal, and say that real liberals are the ones who match my criterion... which means that all liberals are responsible people. It's all garbage.

That's why I let people identify themselves as conservative, liberal, moderate, etc. This is what the term is meaning in common, or practical, usage. People who identify themselves as Republican or Democratic are what measures the behavior of the "rank and file," and their philosophy reflects what people take from the ideologues of the two sides.

 

[Sargeras]

I've talked with right wingers who hate Bush and Fox News just as much as the left.

If not more so. We have to take the brunt of the bullshit.

This eternal left/right fued on TK has an interesting '1984' quality to it.

It's hard to believe there are people here who defend Bush just to criticize the left here. They don't even try to seem like apologists - they outright think there are good qualities to him.

 

[The Question]

TQ, TQ, TQ...

When you define "conservative" as being responsible, of course conservatives will be responsible... by definition. It's true - practically tautologically - but ultimately a meaningless expression. Ask Number_6; he can explain exactly why selecting examples based on their matching what you say is conservative will result in you confirming your opinion.

Well, that's an impressive piece of gymnastics, there. Here's another in that same theme:

"Well, of course if you define what a car is, only objects matching that definition will be labeled cars!"

I could do the exact same thing using my own outline as the "true identifier" of what conservative really means and confirm my results that way... or take my ideals as a liberal, and say that real liberals are the ones who match my criterion... which means that all liberals are responsible people. It's all garbage.

No, in fact it's not. It's a case of determining criteria for your definition before setting out to determine which subjects under investigation meet that definition.

That's why I let people identify themselves as conservative, liberal, moderate, etc. This is what the term is meaning in common, or practical, usage. People who identify themselves as Republican or Democratic are what measures the behavior of the "rank and file," and their philosophy reflects what people take from the ideologues of the two sides.

I see. So if I identify myself as a watermelon, are you prepared to take my word for it?

 

[Number_6]

The fact of the matter is that liberal or conservative... most of today's young people are quite inclined towards partying and personal irresponsibility.

Well, I could have told you that.

However, what I'd add to this is that those students who are more conservative are generally willing to accept the consequences for their actions, whereas those who are more liberal--really more left, not liberal--are more likely to want to either place the blame elsewhere or to demand that the system change to accommodate their values.

Keep in mind that because of the nature of what I teach--literature and composition--students' political viewpoints are inevitably revealed during class.

Also, I've taught at one of the most leftist institutions in the U.S., as well as at an institution commonly regarded as conservative. So I've seen not only how individuals act out or do not act out their political beliefs, but also how the political bent of the institution can affect the student population.

But, on the whole, I'd say that the Baby Boomers have done a pretty piss poor job of raising their children to become responsible adults.

 

[Friday]

However, what I'd add to this is that those students who are more conservative are generally willing to accept the consequences for their actions, whereas those who are more liberal--really more left, not liberal--are more likely to want to either place the blame elsewhere or to demand that the system change to accommodate their values.

Why do you think this is? Behavior learned thru their parents? Does one's political leanings automatically dictate one's value system?

But, on the whole, I'd say that the Baby Boomers have done a pretty piss poor job of raising their children to become responsible adults.

Most of our leaders, left and right, have parents who are baby boomers. I dare say some of them are responsible.

What is the generation after baby boomers? X? I think that's where your blame lies.