Ultimate Truth In Art

[Ketman]

Work, Freedom, Bread

 

[The Question]

Sorry, where's the "ultimate truth" in that? What's next, are you going to throw the "Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer" poster out there? You're either one of those stupid, clownish skinhead kids who's only interested in National Socialism for the shock value of it, or you're an ignorant but no less clownish anti-Nazi who's trying to set himself up as a strawman. Either way, you're doing your cause more harm than good.

Therefore, I say unto thee: verily, fuck off, thou.

 

[Ketman]

Hans Schmitz-Wiedenbrück: Workers, Soldiers, Farmer

 

[Ketman]

Sorry, where's the "ultimate truth" in that? What's next, are you going to throw the "Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer" poster out there? You're either one of those stupid, clownish skinhead kids who's only interested in National Socialism for the shock value of it, or you're an ignorant but no less clownish anti-Nazi who's trying to set himself up as a strawman. Either way, you're doing your cause more harm than good.

You are wrong on both counts. My goal is to educate the masses about National Socialism, and to introduce a worldview onto this board. The task of this worldview is not to explain the what of political life, but rather the how. A worldview does not govern the things of life, but rather the relationships of those things. The task of explaining this relationship in the details of public life, of persuading the broad masses of its desirability, is the task of my political propaganda.

 

[The Question]

You are wrong on both counts. My goal is to educate the masses about National Socialism, and to introduce a worldview onto this board. The task of this worldview is not to explain the what of political life, but rather the how. A worldview does not govern the things of life, but rather the relationships of those things. The task of explaining this relationship in the details of public life, of persuading the broad masses of its desirability, is the task of my political propaganda.

Well, I've gotta tell you, you're either the most tenacious strawman artist I've ever seen, or you just sincerely love lost causes.

But on the off chance that you're serious, and not some little bullshit artist, what are the aims of National Socialism in the 21st century, as you see them? I don't want to hear about what National Socialism is fighting against -- tell me what it's fighting for.

 

[The Question]

Actually, while I'm here, let me give you my understanding of how National Socialism ought to work. It's got similarities to older versions, but also some very drastic differences.

1. Only citizens may participate in any form of government, at any level. Further, dual citizenships will be immediately revoked, without the possibility of appeal, as dual citizenship creates the possibility of divided loyalties and unacceptable foreign influence in domestic political processes.

2. Everyone who is born on American soil to American parents is an American citizen. No longer will foreign invasion be mitigated by an invader's having birthed an offspring here. The sovereignty of the United States is not a game.

3. Political campaigns will not be financed by any individual other than the individual who is running for office. Any official found to have accepted campaign contributions from any source whatsoever will be expelled from office, jailed for no less than six months and/or barred from running for public office, for life.

4. No politician, whether at municipal, county, state or federal level, will hold office for more than four years. Ever. Politicians may move up, or out, but they may not loiter in public office.

5. The military shall engage in no action that is not in direct defense of the nation's safety or sovereignty. The nation shall not be a mercenary at the disposal of any other nation.

6. The nation shall not bankroll any other nation, for any project great or small, without advance promise of suitable repayment, except in the event of extreme natural disaster, and then only so long as the citizenry extends its forebearance for such expense. The American government was not elected by the governments of other nations, neither was it elected by the United Nations, and it is not beholden to them.

I'm sure I could think of plenty more, but those are for starters.

 

[Ketman]

Well, I've gotta tell you, you're either the most tenacious strawman artist I've ever seen, or you just sincerely love lost causes.

But on the off chance that you're serious, and not some little bullshit artist, what are the aims of National Socialism in the 21st century, as you see them? I don't want to hear about what National Socialism is fighting against -- tell me what it's fighting for.

National Socialism in the 21st century strives to accomplish what was failed in the 30's and 40's; the preservation of the Aryan race.

In the U.S., President Bush has been National Socialism's best friend. What better way to turn whites against people of differing nationalities than targeting them as terrorists? Having a national terror alert scale, to remind citizens that "they" are always lurking, and can strike at any time? Anti Semitism is being encouraged by our continued support of Israel. Americans are feeling increasingly oppressed and overlooked by the reigning government. The ingredients are in place for an American form of National Socialism.

From stormfront.org:

National Socialism means the opportunity of a happier, more fulfilling life for the ordinary American working man and woman.

A National Socialist government will work for you and your best interests, using your hard-earned tax dollars for the benefit of your People's well-being, not for "foreign aid" parasites like Israel.

National Socialism means that the American worker's productivity --his or her hard work-- will work not for international bankers, millionaire Capitalist racketeers, and their politician-stooges, but to build a better today for American families and an even brighter tomorrow for Aryan children.
National Socialists support:

Opportunities for all to have a rewarding, productive career, suited to individual ability, talent, and needs.

Affordable opportunities for all families to truly own a home or a food-and-fiber-producing homestead.

Opportunities for creative entrepreneurs to establish or sustain productive businesses supporting their families and the national economy, free from the crippling taxes, usury-bondage, and corrupt anti-entrepreneur tactics of today's monopoly Capitalist system.

Physical and spiritual health maintenance programs for all ages, emphasizing holistic nutrition and fitness awareness.

Free, comprehensive medical services for all, with special concern for children, mothers, and the aged.

Free, universal quality education, primary through university level, stressing excellence, practical knowledge, and love of wisdom.

Enjoyable leisure and social activities for workers inside and outside the workplace, including family vacations, participant sports, and Nature appreciation activities.

Replacement of Establishment-directed soul-destroying mindless "entertainment" and degenerate "art" with government-supported programs empowering all to express themselves in spiritually-healthy music and literature, graphic, plastic, and performing arts, and other cultureforms.

Replacement of the Establishment's mechanistic, inorganic, money-driven law code with a People's Law system upholding the principle of justice for individuals regardless of wealth, gender, or age.

Question not how National Socialism will build a better life, but how it can once again.

 

[Ketman]

1. Only citizens may participate in any form of government, at any level. Further, dual citizenships will be immediately revoked, without the possibility of appeal, as dual citizenship creates the possibility of divided loyalties and unacceptable foreign influence in domestic political processes.

Agreed. Dual citizenship encourages the dilution of the American way of life. The idea of the U.S. being the world's "melting pot" is antiquated and obsolete in today's world.

2. Everyone who is born on American soil to American parents is an American citizen. No longer will foreign invasion be mitigated by an invader's having birthed an offspring here. The sovereignty of the United States is not a game.

Just by virtue of being here at the right time, foreigners can give birth to American citizens. This does not make sense to me.

3. Political campaigns will not be financed by any individual other than the individual who is running for office. Any official found to have accepted campaign contributions from any source whatsoever will be expelled from office, jailed for no less than six months and/or barred from running for public office, for life.

This would keep campaign costs to an acceptable level, and prevent any undue outside influences. Agreed, as well.

4. No politician, whether at municipal, county, state or federal level, will hold office for more than four years. Ever. Politicians may move up, or out, but they may not loiter in public office.

5. The military shall engage in no action that is not in direct defense of the nation's safety or sovereignty. The nation shall not be a mercenary at the disposal of any other nation.

6. The nation shall not bankroll any other nation, for any project great or small, without advance promise of suitable repayment, except in the event of extreme natural disaster, and then only so long as the citizenry extends its forebearance for such expense. The American government was not elected by the governments of other nations, neither was it elected by the United Nations, and it is not beholden to them.

America's financial and military assets should be utilized only for the advancement of American ideals only. I would go one step further and say America should not make any loans to foreign interests at all. We are not the Global Red Cross. We are a country; a country that should start looking out for it's own interests, instead of playing surrogate mother to the world.[/QUOTE]

 

[The Question]

National Socialism in the 21st century strives to accomplish what was failed in the 30's and 40's; the preservation of the Aryan race.

Then that's a misnomer, son. You're talking about racial socialism. I thought you wanted to talk about national socialism. Say what you mean.

 

[MessengerX]

Then that's a misnomer, son. You're talking about racial socialism. I thought you wanted to talk about national socialism. Say what you mean.

Exposed with its tail between its legs.

 

[Sargeras]

National Socialism in the 21st century strives to accomplish what was failed in the 30's and 40's; the preservation of the Aryan race.

In the U.S., President Bush has been National Socialism's best friend.

:gagh:

What better way to turn whites against people of differing nationalities than targeting them as terrorists?

Except that Jews and blacks are American, in a sense. Are you implying that "whites" are a nationality?

Having a national terror alert scale, to remind citizens that "they" are always lurking, and can strike at any time?

All citizens of all social and political spectrums have known for the longest time that the colored scale of TERROR! is bullshit.

Anti Semitism is being encouraged by our continued support of Israel.

No, it is brought on by the support by Israel. Do you see the difference?

Americans are feeling increasingly oppressed and overlooked by the reigning government. The ingredients are in place for an American form of National Socialism.

Are you one to speak? Have you ever had your faced stomped and scarred by some nigs or spics looking to find a dime in your wallet, pretty boy?

The living strawman. If you can't argue, then don't enter the debate.

 

[The Question]

In the U.S., President Bush has been National Socialism's best friend.

Hardly. In fact, his actions have been directly opposite those a national socialist would have taken.

What better way to turn whites against people of differing nationalities than targeting them as terrorists?

Well, here's a better way -- have whites walk through inner city neighborhoods and along our southern border.

Having a national terror alert scale, to remind citizens that "they" are always lurking, and can strike at any time?

I think 9/11 and the -- sometimes fatal -- violence against ranchers and other property owners in southern border states have been excellent reminders, all by themselves.

Anti Semitism is being encouraged by our continued support of Israel.

I doubt that our government is supporting Israel just so that anti-Semites will have something to complain about. On the other hand, financial and military support of Israel, and more especially the venomous Islamic radical backlash against America that is a response to that policy, can very well be an enormous factor in the growth of anti-semitism.

Americans are feeling increasingly oppressed and overlooked by the reigning government. The ingredients are in place for an American form of National Socialism.

We'll see. Unless our government goes back to being one of the people, by the people and for the people, I have no doubt whatsoever that we'll see.

 

[headspace]

and more especially the venomous Islamic radical backlash against America that is a response to that policy, can very well be an enormous factor in the growth of anti-semitism.

Aah, What was that about racial intolerance again? You seem to be exhibiting signs of it yourself.

So the growth in anti semitism is down to those pesky muslims? I always knew it was their fault. I'm glad it's not the right wing political parties - phew! that's a relief.

Now are they a state, a race, a religion? You see the radicals believe that if you are a muslim you are one and all - one state, one race, one religion. This is the justification for a Jihad. Jihad is in fact only allowed if a state is under attack. Your definitions of national or racial are only valid in your western world.

 

[The Question]

Aah, What was that about racial intolerance again? You seem to be exhibiting signs of it yourself.

So the growth in anti semitism is down to those pesky muslims? I always knew it was their fault. I'm glad it's not the right wing political parties - phew! that's a relief.

Now are they a state, a race, a religion? You see the radicals believe that if you are a muslim you are one and all - one state, one race, one religion. This is the justification for a Jihad. Jihad is in fact only allowed if a state is under attack. Your definitions of national or racial are only valid in your western world.

And since I'm living in "my" western world, they're perfectly valid for me, now, aren't they?

And no, I'm not saying that the dynamic is good, or that it's justified -- only that the dynamic exists. Radical jihadists use Israel's existence as a justification for violence against Israel. Our government's support of Israel they use as a justification of violence against us. Naturally, that's going to lead increasing numbers of Americans to resent and criticize Israel, and our government's support of Israel, and that criticism is almost immediately and automatically labeled as anti-Semitism.

Try peddling your crap elsewhere.

 

[headspace]

Radical jihadists use Israel's existence as a justification for violence against Israel.

That's not strictly true as the Kohran actually states a jihad has to be proclaimed by a state itself. Al Queda do not have a state (well not one that will publicly support them) so they claim they are "one nation." The radicals conveniently side step the Kohrans definition. This is why it has almost NOTHING to do with religion and everything to do with economics and radicalism.

Try peddling your crap elsewhere.

I'm just trying to comment that the definitions we strive so hard to argue for are meaningless in front of radicalism. Thanks for your comment.

 

[The Question]

That's not strictly true as the Kohran actually states a jihad has to be proclaimed by a state itself. Al Queda do not have a state (well not one that will publicly support them) so they claim they are "one nation." The radicals conveniently side step the Kohrans definition. This is why it has almost NOTHING to do with religion and everything to do with economics and radicalism.

Nice subject change. About as subtle as a brick through a windshield.

I'm just trying to comment that the definitions we strive so hard to argue for are meaningless in front of radicalism. Thanks for your comment.

And why are they meaningless? And since when is that what you were trying to argue? You started off trying to argue that it's racist to describe the dynamic whereby support of Israel can result in anti-Semitism, and then changed your tune to say... what, exactly? That radical muslims aren't supported by the Q'uran? What does the latter have to do with the former?

 

[starguard]