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War simulation in 1999 pointed out Iraq invasion problems

Sarek

Vuhlkansu Wihs
WASHINGTON (AP) -- A series of secret U.S. war games in 1999 showed that an invasion and post-war administration of Iraq would require 400,000 troops, nearly three times the number there now.

And even then, the games showed, the country still had a chance of dissolving into chaos.

In the simulation, called Desert Crossing, 70 military, diplomatic and intelligence participants concluded the high troop levels would be needed to keep order, seal borders and take care of other security needs.

The documents came to light Saturday through a Freedom of Information Act request by George Washington University's National Security Archive, an independent research institute and library.

"The conventional wisdom is the U.S. mistake in Iraq was not enough troops," said Thomas Blanton, the archive's director. "But the Desert Crossing war game in 1999 suggests we would have ended up with a failed state even with 400,000 troops on the ground."

There are about 144,000 U.S. troops in Iraq, down from a peak in January of about 160,000.

A week after the invasion, in March 2003, the Pentagon said there were 250,000 U.S. ground force troops inside Iraq, along with 40,000 coalition force troops.

A spokeswoman for the U.S. Central Command, which sponsored the seminar and declassified the secret report in 2004, declined to comment Saturday because she was not familiar with the documents.

News of the war games results comes a day before judges are expected to deliver a verdict in Saddam Hussein war crimes trial. (Watch people prepare as curfew sets across Baghdad in anticipation of the verdicts -- 3:20 Video)

The war games looked at "worst case" and "most likely" scenarios after a war that removed then-Iraqi President Saddam Hussein from power. Some of the conclusions are similar to what actually occurred after the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq in 2003:

# "A change in regimes does not guarantee stability," the 1999 seminar briefings said. "A number of factors including aggressive neighbors, fragmentation along religious and/or ethnic lines, and chaos created by rival forces bidding for power could adversely affect regional stability."

# "Even when civil order is restored and borders are secured, the replacement regime could be problematic -- especially if perceived as weak, a puppet, or out-of-step with prevailing regional governments."

# "Iran's anti-Americanism could be enflamed by a U.S.-led intervention in Iraq," the briefings read. "The influx of U.S. and other western forces into Iraq would exacerbate worries in Tehran, as would the installation of a pro-western government in Baghdad."

# "The debate on post-Saddam Iraq also reveals the paucity of information about the potential and capabilities of the external Iraqi opposition groups. The lack of intelligence concerning their roles hampers U.S. policy development."

# "Also, some participants believe that no Arab government will welcome the kind of lengthy U.S. presence that would be required to install and sustain a democratic government."

# "A long-term, large-scale military intervention may be at odds with many coalition partners."


And the monkey in the White House never listens to the experts.
 
That's before we developed the MOAB and shock and awe strategy. No one said we'd be greeted with flowers but things have still turned out good mostly in part to the fine administrative efforts of our Republican administration and due to the sacrifice our soldiers have put on the frontlines and smoking out the foreign insurgency. Rumsfeld cares about the troops you know.

-Organic
 
According to Bob Woodward in Bush at War, the Bush team was exasperated by the fact that under Clinton no new Iraq invasion plans had been drawn up since 1998. What they had was useless, they had to start over from scratch.

Saddam Hussein obviously knew these difficulties better than anyone else, he knew it would be difficult to build a new Iraq with his police state gone. That's why he bluffed to the very last minute with ultimatum after ultimatum from the United Nations Security Council and the United States. Sadly, it was Saddam's intelligence that was wrong, not Bush's. Saddam bet wrong on bad intel data that the U.S. would not remove him, and he paid the price.

-Ogami
 
Ogami said:
According to Bob Woodward in Bush at War, the Bush team was exasperated by the fact that under Clinton no new Iraq invasion plans had been drawn up since 1998. What they had was useless, they had to start over from scratch.
Ah yes, we see just how much faith the White House had in exhausting the diplomatic option.
 
Ogami said:
According to Bob Woodward in Bush at War, the Bush team was exasperated by the fact that under Clinton no new Iraq invasion plans had been drawn up since 1998. What they had was useless, they had to start over from scratch.

Seeing as the Clinton Administration began in January 1993 and ended in January of 2001, how is this a problem...unless you meant a different date.
 
Messenger wrote:

Ah yes, we see just how much faith the White House had in exhausting the diplomatic option.

Bush did exhaust the diplomatic option, I see your command of chronology is suffering again. Regime change in Iraq has been the official policy of the United States government since 1998, Bill Clinton signed it into law. Candidate Bush campaigned on regime change in Iraq. After September 11th 2001, did Bush invade Iraq to steal their oil for Halliburton?

No. We invaded Afghanistan. Iraq was put on the backburner until the summer of 2002, when we started putting serious diplomatic pressure on Iraq to allow full unfettered inspections as specified by 12 years of UN resolutions.

Again, if you have the ability to count one day to the next, it's not hard messenger, we gave Saddam Hussein at least from September 2002 to March 2003 to hide, destroy, or move his WMD stockpiles and WMD acquisition programs. That is an incredibly long length of time for Saddam to get rid of the evidence, even if we don't count all the time he had from 1991 to 2002 to do the same.

So Bush did exhaust all diplomatic options, and 12 years is enough time for any would-be conqueror to come clean. If you don't think 12 years was long enough, be specific Messenger. How many more decades did we need to sanction Saddam to show we meant business? LOL

-Ogami
 
Ogami said:
Messenger wrote:

Ah yes, we see just how much faith the White House had in exhausting the diplomatic option.

Bush did exhaust the diplomatic option, I see your command of chronology is suffering again. Regime change in Iraq has been the official policy of the United States government since 1998, Bill Clinton signed it into law. Candidate Bush campaigned on regime change in Iraq. After September 11th 2001, did Bush invade Iraq to steal their oil for Halliburton?

-Ogami

Yes.

WASHINGTON - The US Army has revealed for the first time that a subsidiary of Halliburton Co. has a contract encompassing the operation of Iraqi oil fields, a senior US lawmaker said.

Previously, the US Army Corps of Engineers had described the contract given to Halliburton -- run by US Vice President Dick Cheney from 1995 to 2000 -- as involving oil well firefighting.

But in a May 2 letter replying to questions from a senior Democratic lawmaker, Henry Waxman, the army said the contract also included "operation of facilities and distribution of products."

Waxman, the top-ranking Democrat in the House of Representatives' committee on government reform, asked for an explanation Tuesday.

"Your May 2 letter indicates that the contract is considerably broader in scope than previously known," Waxman told Army Corps of Engineers military programs chief Lieutenant General Robert Flowers.

"Prior descriptions of the Halliburton contract had indicated that the contract was for extinguishing fires at oil wells and for related repair activities," the lawmaker said, according to a copy of the letter.

"These new disclosures are significant and they seem at odds with the administration's repeated assurances that the Iraqi oil belongs to the Iraqi people."


The Army Corps of Engineers said the Halliburton contract was designed as a temporary bridge to a contract that would be out to competitive tender. It expected the replacement contract to be advertised by early summer and awarded at the end of August.

The corps had already come under fire Wednesday over its granting of the Iraqi oil contract on March 8 to Halliburton subsidiary Kellogg, Brown and Root (KBR) without putting it out to tender.

Representative Henry Waxman also said Halliburton's dealings with countries cited by Washington as state sponsors of terrorism, or members of the so-called "axis of evil", date back to the 1980s.

The dealings "appear to have continued during the period between 1995 and 2000, when Vice President Cheney headed the company; and they are apparently ongoing even today," said Waxman, a frequent critic of President George W. Bush's administration.

"Halliburton has recently been awarded a leading -- and lucrative -- role in the US war against terrorism," Waxman wrote.

"Yet there is also evidence from press accounts and other sources that indicates that Halliburton has profited from numerous business dealings with state sponsors of terrorism, including two of the three members of President Bush's 'axis of evil.'"

The "axis of evil" first cited by Bush in early 2002 included Iraq, prior to the US-led war, Iran and North Korea.

Waxman stopped short of saying Halliburton's actions violated US laws that prohibit business dealings in certain countries, but maintained that Halliburton "appears to have sought to circumvent these restrictions by setting up subsidiaries in foreign countries and territories such as the Cayman Islands."

Waxman said he was concerned that the US government was awarding new contracts to Halliburton despite its ties to certain countries.

He wrote to Rumsfeld, "I would like to know what the Defense Department knows about these ties and whether you think this should be a matter of concern to the Congress and the American taxpayer.

"Rather than being criticized, the company is rewarded with valuable government contracts."

Some of the involvement of Halliburton is detailed in company documents including its annual reports.

Halliburton spokesman Wendy Hall did not dispute the Waxman allegations, but said the company operates within the law while trying to remain competitive with US and foreign rivals.

"Putting politics aside, we and our affiliates operate in countries, to the extent it is legally permissible, where our customers are active as they expect us to provide oilfield services support to their international operations," Hall said in a written statement.

"Where the United States government has mandated that United States companies refrain from commerce, we comply, often to the advantage of our international competitors. We do not always agree with policies or actions of governments in every place that we do business and make no excuses for their behaviors."

As for the actions of Halliburton offshore subsidiaries, Hall said, "The company believes that the operations of its subsidiaries are in compliance with US laws. These entities and activities are staffed and managed by non-US personnel."

Waxman has asked the General Accounting Office, the investigative arm of Congress, to probe whether the firm had received favorable treatment by the administration.

Meanwhile, a spokeswoman for Cheney, contacted about the letter, gave no immediate response.

But Citizen Works, a consumer advocacy group founded by onetime presidential candidate Ralph Nader , said Halliburton's treatment by the government was questionable.

"It's extremely troubling that our government is using taxpayer money to deliver lucrative contracts to companies like Halliburton that have used offshore subsidiaries to maneuver around restrictions on doing business with state sponsors of terrorism," said spokesman Charlie Cray.
 
You bring the bumper sticker, and I'll bring the content:

Halliburton: The Bush/Iraq Scandal that Wasn’t
The president’s critics come up empty.
July 9, 2003, 9:30 a.m.

In 1997, when LOGCAP was again put up for bid, Halliburton/Brown & Root lost the competition to another contractor, Dyncorp. But the Clinton Defense Department, rather than switch from Halliburton to Dyncorp, elected to award a separate, sole-source contract to Halliburton/Brown & Root to continue its work in the Balkans. According to a later GAO study, the Army made the choice because 1) Brown & Root had already acquired extensive knowledge of how to work in the area; 2) the company "had demonstrated the ability to support the operation"; and 3) changing contractors would have been costly. The Army's sole-source Bosnia contract with Brown & Root lasted until 1999. At that time, the Clinton Defense Department conducted full-scale competitive bidding for a new contract. The winner was . . . Halliburton/Brown & Root. The company continued its work in Bosnia uninterrupted.

That work received favorable notices throughout the Clinton administration. For example, Vice President Al Gore's National Performance Review mentioned Halliburton's performance in its Report on Reinventing the Department of Defense, issued in September 1996. In a section titled "Outsourcing of Logistics Allows Combat Troops to Stick to Basics," Gore's reinventing-government team favorably mentioned LOGCAP, the cost-plus-award system, and Brown & Root, which the report said provided "basic life support services — food, water, sanitation, shelter, and laundry; and the full realm of logistics services — transportation, electrical, hazardous materials collection and disposal, fuel delivery, airfield and seaport operations, and road maintenance."

In 2001, after the Bush administration came into office, the giant LOGCAP contract expired again and another competition was held. Once again, Halliburton won the contract, and it was under that arrangement that the Iraqi-oilfield analysis was done. As the record shows, Halliburton won big government contracts under the Clinton administration, and it won big government contracts under the Bush administration. The only difference between the two is that Henry Waxman is making allegations of favoritism in the Bush administration, while he appeared untroubled by the issue during the Clinton years.
http://www.nationalreview.com/york/york070903.asp
 
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Thanks to Sarek conceding the argument. It's pretty hard to get liberals to admit when they're wrong, but it appears we'll just get rubber stamp responses to solid arguments like "As the record shows, Halliburton won big government contracts under the Clinton administration, and it won big government contracts under the Bush administration. The only difference between the two is that Henry Waxman is making allegations of favoritism in the Bush administration, while he appeared untroubled by the issue during the Clinton years. "
 
Cheney, the former CEO of Haliburton, wasn't VP during the Clinton years. He also continues to receive as much as $1 million a year in deferred compensation and Halliburton executives enjoy a seat at the table during Bush administration discussions over how to handle post-war oil production in Iraq.
 
Again, you post your rumors, I respond with hard fact. With you and Messenger, it's like shooting fish in a barrel, you're too easy:

Do Dems really want to play the integrity game?
Cal Thomas
July 19, 2002

Questions are being raised by Democrats and the big media (but I repeat myself) about Dick Cheney's large profit from the sale of Halliburton stock options in August, 2000. Cheney divested himself of Halliburton shares as he left the energy company to run for vice president. The fact that editorials in The New York Times and other papers called on Cheney to sell his stock to avoid any appearance of a conflict of interest apparently has been forgotten. The suggestion now is that Cheney did something wrong. Does anyone wish to compare this vice president's integrity with his predecessor, Mr. "no controlling legal authority"?
http://www.jewishworldreview.com/cols/thomas071902.asp
 
Cheney's Halliburton stock options rose 3,281% last year, senator finds

http://rawstory.com/news/2005/Cheneys_stock_options_rose_3281_last_1011.html

An analysis released by a Democratic senator found that Vice President Dick Cheney's Halliburton stock options have risen 3,281 percent in the last year, RAW STORY can reveal.

Sen. Frank Lautenberg (D-NJ) asserts that Cheney's options -- worth $241,498 a year ago -- are now valued at more than $8 million.

“Halliburton has already raked in more than $10 billion from the Bush-Cheney Administration for work in Iraq, and they were awarded some of the first Katrina contracts," Lautenberg said in a statement. "It is unseemly for the Vice President to continue to benefit from this company at the same time his Administration funnels billions of dollars to it. The Vice President should sever his financial ties to Halliburton once and for all.”

Cheney continues to hold 433,333 Halliburton stock options. The company has been criticized by auditors for its handling of a no-bid contact in Iraq. Auditors found the firm marked up meal prices for troops and inflated gas prices in a deal with a Kuwaiti supplier. The company built the American prison at Guantanamo Bay.

The Vice President has sought to stem criticism by signing an agreement to donate the after-tax profits from these stock options to charities of his choice, and his lawyer has said he will not take any tax deduction for the donations.

However, the Congressional Research Service (CRS) concluded in Sept. 2003 that holding stock options while in elective office does constitute a “financial interest” regardless of whether the holder of the options will donate proceeds to charities. CRS also found that receiving deferred compensation is a financial interest.

Cheney told "Meet the Press" in 2003 that he didn't have any financial ties to the firm.

“Since I left Halliburton to become George Bush's vice president, I've severed all my ties with the company, gotten rid of all my financial interest," the Vice President said. "I have no financial interest in Halliburton of any kind and haven't had, now, for over three years.”

Cheney continues to received a deferred salary from the company. According to financial disclosure forms, he was paid $205,298 in 2001; $162,392 in 2002; $178,437 in 2003; and $194,852 in 2004.
 
Ogami said:
Again, you post your rumors, I respond with hard fact. With you and Messenger, it's like shooting fish in a barrel, you're too easy:
Perhaps you'd like to organize an orderly thread, you and I discuss issue [x], and no one else, no insults, etc?
 
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