Why yesterday's Mar A Lago Raid was so "Important"

jack

The Legendary Troll Kingdom
18 USC 2071- Destruction and removal of records.

Not a bad felony punishment wise. If convicted, Trump probably won't do time, but he will be barred from ever running for office again.

It's interesting that the right has now shifted to the position that ANY "investigation" of Trump is "politically motivated". Like the guy didn't do any crimes or something.

From one of the artcles: ""This, is by far, not one of the biggest crimes he's been charged with, but, it carries the penalty, that someone who is convicted of it is disqualified from running for future federal office," said Litman. "So, 18 USC 2071, if you destroyed records, when they came and talk to him a few months ago, and carted stuff away. Much of it was documents that have been ripped up. You had, just today, pictures of them stuffing things down the toilet. They may have decided to go after this, disqualify him from future office, secure a conviction, and have that be the broad resolution of the whole problem of Trump. That, in any event, it's huge, but this feature of it that he couldn't run for office in the future is really an enormous aspect of it."

Discuss.
 
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jack

The Legendary Troll Kingdom
I knew when I saw those toilet pics getting released yesterday something was up. Didn't know it would be this though.
 
18 USC 2071- Destruction and removal of records.

Not a bad felony punishment wise. If convicted, Trump probably won't do time, but he will be barred from ever running for office again.

It's interesting that the right has now shifted to the position that ANY "investigation" of Trump is "politically motivated". Like the guy didn't do any crimes or something.

From one of the artcles: ""This, is by far, not one of the biggest crimes he's been charged with, but, it carries the penalty, that someone who is convicted of it is disqualified from running for future federal office," said Litman. "So, 18 USC 2071, if you destroyed records, when they came and talk to him a few months ago, and carted stuff away. Much of it was documents that have been ripped up. You had, just today, pictures of them stuffing things down the toilet. They may have decided to go after this, disqualify him from future office, secure a conviction, and have that be the broad resolution of the whole problem of Trump. That, in any event, it's huge, but this feature of it that he couldn't run for office in the future is really an enormous aspect of it."

Discuss.
It's looking like you're right. They're going to make it so he won't be able to run again.
 

jack

The Legendary Troll Kingdom
Garland had quite a speech this afternoon. Brief yet to the point. This was all done by the letter of the rule of law.
 

jack

The Legendary Troll Kingdom
From the NYT today:

Former President Donald J. Trump received a subpoena this spring in search of documents that federal investigators believed he had failed to turn over earlier in the year, when he returned boxes of material he had improperly taken with him upon moving out of the White House, three people familiar with the matter said.

The existence of the subpoena helps to flesh out the sequence of events that led to the search of Mr. Trump’s Florida home on Monday by F.B.I. agents seeking classified material they believed might still be there, even after efforts by the National Archives and the Justice Department to ensure that it had been returned.

The subpoena suggests that the Justice Department tried methods short of a search warrant to account for the material before taking the politically explosive step of sending F.B.I. agents unannounced to Mar-a-Lago, Mr. Trump’s home and members-only club.

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Two people briefed on the classified documents that investigators believe remained at Mar-a-Lago indicated that they were so sensitive in nature, and related to national security, that the Justice Department had to act.

The subpoena was first disclosed by John Solomon, a conservative journalist who has also been designated by Mr. Trump as one of his representatives to the National Archives.

The existence of the subpoena is being used by allies of Mr. Trump to make a case that the former president and his team were cooperating with the Justice Department in identifying and returning the documents in question and that the search was unjustified.

The Justice Department declined to comment. Christina Bobb, a lawyer working for Mr. Trump, did not respond to messages. It is not clear what precise materials the subpoena sought or what documents the former president might have provided in response.

The subpoena factored into a visit that Jay Bratt, the Justice Department’s top counterintelligence official, made with a small group of other federal officials to Mar-a-Lago weeks later, in early June, one of the people said.

The officials met with Mr. Trump’s lawyer, Evan Corcoran. Mr. Trump, who likes to play host and has a long history of trying to charm officials inquiring about his practices, also made an appearance. During the visit, the officials examined a basement storage area where the former president had stowed material that had come with him from the White House.

A few days after the visit, Mr. Bratt emailed Mr. Corcoran and told him to further secure the remaining documents, which were kept in the storage area with a stronger padlock, one of the people said. The email was reported earlier by The Wall Street Journal.

Then, they subpoenaed surveillance footage from the club, which could have given officials a glimpse of who was coming in and out of the storage area, according to a person with knowledge of the matter. They received footage specifically from areas of the club where they believed the documents might have been stored, the person said.
 

jack

The Legendary Troll Kingdom
Footnote:
Mr. Trump’s team has declined to disclose the contents of the search warrant. A number of organizations, including The New York Times, are seeking in federal court to have it unsealed.
 

jack

The Legendary Troll Kingdom
Gotta love the Independent:

Insiders say Trump is panicking as Kushner and Melania pointed to as possible moles in FBI raid​

Jared Kushner, Melania Trump, and many others have been pointed to as possible FBI informants following the raid on Mar-a-Lago, former President Donald Trump’s private club in Southern Florida.

The raid is reported to have been aimed at recovering documents containing classified information that was brought to the home after Mr Trump left the White House in January 2021.

Fifteen boxes of documents were taken from the club by the National Archives earlier this year.

The Wall Street Journal reported on Wednesday that after a meeting in June with the FBI at Mar-a-Lago, someone with knowledge of the stored files told the authorities that there could be further classified documents stored at the club.

Conservative lawyer and husband of former Trump aide Kellyanne Conway, George Conway tweeted in response toThe Journal report, asking “Who is CI-1?”

In a federal court filing, CI-1 refers to the initial mention of confidential information.

According to Newsweek, the Mar-a-Lago raid was mostly based on a confidential human source to the FBI, concerning what classified files Mr Trump was still storing at the Florida residence.

Officials told the outlet that the raid was scheduled to occur when Mr Trump wasn’t present.

“I know that there is much speculation out there that this is political persecution, but it is really the best and the worst of the bureaucracy in action,” one official told Newsweek. “They wanted to punctuate the fact that this was a routine law enforcement action, stripped of any political overtones, and yet got exactly the opposite.”

Former deputy assistant FBI director and head of the counterintelligence division Peter Strzok responded to Mr Conway, “And -2? And -3? So much paranoia in a mole hunt, no one to trust, so much to do, so much to lose, so many walls closing in so fast. [also, might be Melanie]”.

Mr Strzok included an image of former CIA official and Russian spy hunter James Angelton who was the head of counterintelligence from 1954 until 1974.

“If there’s probable cause for a physical search, there could be probable cause to intercept electronic communications and phone calls,” Mr Conway responded.

The co-founder of the Lincoln Project, Rick Wilson, appeared on MSNBC to discuss the group’s new ad running in the area around Mr Trump’s Bedminster, New Jersey club.

The ad ponders who could’ve flipped on Mr Trump and shared information with federal authorities, prompting the FBI raid on Mar-a-Lago.

“We knew that Donald Trump would try to gaslight the entire country and try to psychologically destabilize the minute this raid happened,” Mr Wilson said on MSNBC. “We knew he would immediately start lying and they would immediately try to tell an alternate narrative of why it’s happening and why it’s really happening. And we wanted to immediately push back. And something we’re good at — which is getting inside his decision cycle and getting inside his head space and pushing back in a way that we’ve been very, very successful in the past.”
Host John Heilemann asked Mr Wilson who could’ve flipped.

“I think there were a lot of stories a few weeks ago about Jared and Ivanka trying to back away from Trump and trying to start their own brand, essentially break off from Trump and pulling away from the Trump orbit,” Mr Wilson said. “I think Jared Kushner has a great paranoia for reasons to do with his family’s past. He doesn’t ever want to ever go to jail. I suspect that the FBI and folks have a persuasive argument there that he should talk.”

He added that there are plenty of other possible suspects.

“They know they’re imminently ready to be thrown under the bus,” Mr Wilson said. “So, it could be any one of them. Which is kind of the point we were making. And look, I could have made a longer spot than 60 [seconds] and told a more complete story. But, look, they’re always like crabs in a bucket down there in Mar-a-Lago. They’re always fighting with each other. They’re always competing with each other and they’re always looking to protect themselves. So someone is protecting themselves in a pool right now.”

Mr Trump is reportedly trying to hunt down someone who could’ve communicated with the federal authorities. Rolling Stone magazine also reported that he believes he’s being wiretapped “by Biden”.

“He has asked me and others, ‘Do you think our phones are tapped?’ Given the sheer volume of investigations going on into the [former] president, I do not think he’s assuming anything is outside the realm of possibility,” one person told Rolling Stone.

“I’m getting a lot of messages saying, ‘this guy must be the informant,’ and others … calling for the president to start doing phone-checks of his staff,” on Trump advisor told the magazine. “To be honest, a lot of it feels like people trying to screw over the ones they don’t like.”
 

jack

The Legendary Troll Kingdom
 

jack

The Legendary Troll Kingdom
When they published Grisham's "toilet bowl pics" accross the channels I knew we were about to embark on an unusual news cycle.

Republicans need to get their shit together if they want any representation in the next election cycle. The Dems seem to have a plan to put the craziest ones up on that side to run against. Seems to be working so far. Keri Lake? That Finchem Oath Keeper guy? Hagerman? Whatever. Crazy is crazy however it's dressed up.

Never stick your dick in crazy, as my dead brother used to say.
 

jack

The Legendary Troll Kingdom
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Oerdin

Active Member
Frankly, not enough information is publicly known to see if there is anything there or if it is just another lie from the weaponized legal system. I am willing to wait for evidence and to evaluate it critically but I will remain skeptical. Here is a good center left search on this.

 
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jack

The Legendary Troll Kingdom
28 more boxes of classified material seem to be telling the tale. He had no business with ANY of it. Period. That's our (as in "we the people's") stuff, not his.

There's only one way for him out of this that I can see.
 

Oerdin

Active Member
If, as his lawyer claims, he declassified it, as he has the absolute authority to do, then legally, yes, he can legally have it. Fact.

So the question becomes was it declassified or not? So far we just have Adam Schiff, a known liar, vs Trump's lawyer (who I don't know anything about). Like I said, I want detailed evidence so I can evaluate myself and am willing to wait and see. Given all the lies and hoaxes which have fallen apart to date I remain a skeptic until I can see the hard evidence. It remains likely, in my mind, this is just dems trying a fishing expedition against their likely 2024 opponent; so if there is no smoking gun than this is disgusting corruption and abuse of law by Democrats.
 

jack

The Legendary Troll Kingdom
If, as his lawyer claims, he declassified it, as he has the absolute authority to do, then legally, yes, he can legally have it. Fact.

So the question becomes was it declassified or not? So far we just have Adam Schiff, a known liar, vs Trump's lawyer (who I don't know anything about). Like I said, I want detailed evidence so I can evaluate myself and am willing to wait and see. Given all the lies and hoaxes which have fallen apart to date I remain a skeptic until I can see the hard evidence. It remains likely, in my mind, this is just dems trying a fishing expedition against their likely 2024 opponent; so if there is no smoking gun than this is disgusting corruption and abuse of law by Democrats.
Your first sentence is patently incorrect. Please go look up the statute he's being investigated with. Doesn't MATTER if they're classified or not. That's our property not his. Period. /end of. You're either misinformed or willfully ignoring the real law which he signed by the way in 2018.

All that aside, I'm very interested in how this all turns out for or against him.
 

Oerdin

Active Member
Your first sentence is patently incorrect. Please go look up the statute he's being investigated with. Doesn't MATTER if they're classified or not. That's our property not his. Period. /end of. You're either misinformed or willfully ignoring the real law which he signed by the way in 2018.

All that aside, I'm very interested in how this all turns out for or against him.

I look forward to hearing from a court and examining the evidence because, no, it is not clear that the president has to do anything more than declare it declassified. Don't believe me? Read some of the statements Nixon made on the matter during Watergate. It is going to be an interesting legal case.
 

Oerdin

Active Member
And new proof is in. Reporters have seem copies of the presidential memorandum signed Jan 19th, 2021 which declassified all of the material in question.

It really is looking like he did everything legally, it was done B the book, yet Democrat criminals are just trying to weaponize the justice system (which they have done for years).

 
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