This is still happening in America

['Gear]

Fiddlemiff's excellent post of The Sagan Series had me stopping by the 'tube for a little more. I inadvertantly found footage of Cody in what I assume is his last year in school. He's right there at the end I'm pretty sure.

Also, did she really just say "The science teacher at the local highschool shares the creationist views of his students"?

Crazy Creationism in a High School Classroom - YouTube

 

[Donovan]

I wish to fuck they wouldn't always find people with southern accents for these stories. I think I just felt another ten IQ points slip away...

 

['Gear]

How do they always find em? It is a strange coincidence isn't it? Heh heh heh.

 

[Mirah]

My biology teacher was not allowed to talk about creation unless someone asked. So we asked.
What is wrong about learning something other than evolution?
Shouldn't all points of view be taken into consideration?

 

['Gear]

Why yes of course Mirah. A science teacher should teach science and a priest, rabbi or pastor should teach the religious position.

Anything else is a horrific conflict of interest.

In fact, if we kill the priests, rabbis and pastors, we'd all be better off. Children won't be taught dark ages ignorance.

 

[Ilyanna]

mullahs, honey. Don't forget the mullahs.

 

['Gear]

YES! Full purge!

 

[jack]

I fucked this mormon girl when I was 15, she was a crazy person, kept talking about 144000 saved souls or some such, I still can't figure it out.

Shook it all night long though.

 

['Gear]

"...to the priestly class - decadence is no more than a means to an end. Men of this sort have a vital interest in making mankind sick, and in confusing the values of "good" and "bad," "true" and "false" in a manner that is not only dangerous to life, but also slanders it."

-Friedrich Nietzsche, The Antichrist (1888). Sec. 24

 

[Ilyanna]

Religion has become superstition and image-worship, belief and ritual. It has lost the beauty of truth; incense has taken the place of reality. Instead of direct perception there is in its place the image carved by the hand or the mind. The only concern of religion is the total transformation of man. And all the circus that goes on around it is nonsense. That's why the truth is not to be found in any temple, church or mosque, however beautiful they are. Beauty of truth and the beauty of stone are two different things. One opens the door to the immeasurable and the other to, the imprisonment of man; the one to freedom and the other to the bondage of thought. Romanticism and sentimentality deny the very nature of religion, nor is it a plaything of the intellect. Knowledge in the area of action is necessary to function efficiently and objectively, but knowledge is not the means of the transformation of man; knowledge is the structure of thought and thought is the dull repetition of the known, however modified and enlarged. There is no freedom through the ways of thought, the known.

Krishnamurti Journal Brockwood Park 13th Entry 27th September 1973

 

[Ilyanna]

Oh shit, Gear, we're parroting dead philosophers again. Woe is us..... or not.

 

['Gear]

I gotta say I disagree with a fair amount of that Krishnamurti Journal excerpt though.

 

[Ilyanna]

I can imagine you do. Where would be the challenge if we only posted stuff the other agrees to?

Krishnamurti had a completely different approach than Nietzsche to, well, almost everything .

Let me guess - this one in particular:

Knowledge in the area of action is necessary to function efficiently and objectively, but knowledge is not the means of the transformation of man; knowledge is the structure of thought and thought is the dull repetition of the known, however modified and enlarged. There is no freedom through the ways of thought, the known.

is what you disagree to, right?

 

['Gear]

*Ding*

Also - "Religion has become superstition and image-worship, belief and ritual. It has lost the beauty of truth; incense has taken the place of reality."

 

[Ilyanna]

Damn, I am too tired right now to get into this in detail. Tomorrow.

 

[Ilyanna]

OK, found another quote that may shed a light on JK's stance on religion.

(Problem with JK as well as basically every thinker is that when you start quoting their stuff out of context, you will either fail to convey the meaning, or you'll find yourself coming back again and again to slowly but surely lay out the complete teachings, boring ppl to death in the process. Let's hope I will be able to stop in time. Links included for further info)


[...]Religion is not what I think, but religion is the sense of comprehension of the totality of existence, in which there is no division between you and me. Then if there is that quality of goodness which is virtue, real virtue not the phony virtue of society, but real virtue, then the mind can go beyond and find out, through meditation, through a deep, quiet silence, if there is such a thing as reality. Therefore a religious mind is a mind that is constantly aware, sensitive, attentive, so that it goes beyond itself into a dimension where there is no time at all. [Bolding's mine]

religion; Jiddu Krishnamurti quotes

As far as I understand (and that is not much, granted) Nietzsche places importance on what is perceivable with our senses instead of searching for some metaphysical world or concept that will most certainly always be influenced by the morals and convictions of those presenting them.
If that is correct, then the greatest problem a "Nietzschean" might have with everything JK has to say is the idea that there is any value of seeking a metaphysical truth, that this Truth is more than just a means to shove some morality or other down anybody's throat.

(Of course, JK himself always denied any universal validity to what he said and loathed to be dubbed as spiritual teacher or leader, thus in effect assenting Nietzsche's position on the value of conceptual teachings. )

Anyway, back on track.

"Religion has become superstition and image-worship, belief and ritual. It has lost the beauty of truth; incense has taken the place of reality."

Elaborate, pls; what's wrong in this. The insinuation that religion has ever had the beauty of truth?

 

[Ilyanna]

My biology teacher was not allowed to talk about creation unless someone asked. So we asked.
What is wrong about learning something other than evolution?
Shouldn't all points of view be taken into consideration?

Mirah, just a quick question from a foreigner - do public schools in America have religious education, that is, classes where pupils are taught the principles of the various religions? We had that in Germany back when I was a kid, we were able to choose between classes for catholics, protestants, and one dealing with ethical concepts in general as well as non-christian religions.

 

['Gear]

@ Ily - The problem is unless we begin with a couple of agreed upon definitions and more specific terms we'd be chasing our tails. Not in a good way.

So I'm wondering how you define religion, what you mean by metaphysical truth and conceptual teachings?

Elaborate, pls; what's wrong in this. The insinuation that religion has ever had the beauty of truth?

Yes exactly. But by my definition of religion. Not his. Which is why I think we need to establish definitions to have this conversation.

 

[Ilyanna]

Agreed.

Just for me to be really clear about this and before I write walls of text - which definition of religion do you want in this case: my personal one or that of JK as understood by me? They do vary significantly.

 

['Gear]

Agreed.

Just for me to be really clear about this and before I write walls of text - which definition of religion do you want in this case: my personal one or that of JK as understood by me? They do vary significantly.

Yours. I pretty sure I understand his.