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A question

Riotgear said:
Do you think no has always meant no? Also do you think we interpret the rules governing so called 'no means no' differently depending on our gender?

When a woman say no means no does she mean the same thing as when a man says no means no?

It seems like eloisel says "no means no w/ option"
and you say "no means no w/ serious implication"

Correcting + or - a degree for eloisel's clever ability to sidestep that which is implied :)
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Timing means more than definition, and yeah it usually means implications. "No" at the front door means something different than "No" in coitus interruptus. One is like Eloisel's version, where the circumstances may change at a later date. But the other is more along the lines of "I hate you we're done here" and comes with an exclamation point.
 
Donovan said:
Timing means more than definition, and yeah it usually means implications. "No" at the front door means something different than "No" in coitus interruptus. One is like Eloisel's version, where the circumstances may change at a later date. But the other is more along the lines of "I hate you we're done here" and comes with an exclamation point.
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I tend to interpret 'No' as a final. It seems women think of 'no' as final with option to change. Which in my mind is more dangerously dynamic then I care for (I'm speaking sexually now). The problem is nowadays women want people to hear 'no' as final without option which is the classicly male interpretation. I wonder if women are really ready to opt out of their intrinsic option. I sure hope so because we all been learned up good now aint we?
 
Donovan said:
Right up until it doesn't.
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Is there ever a time when yes means no? Like for example if a person was somehow unqualified or unable to say yes unequivocally but did anyway. Would that then mean their 'yes' was unqualified and should have been and is, at least to an outside observer, in fact a 'no'?
 
Donovan said:
However any girl I am with who tries to play control games with "no means no" finds out pretty quick what my back looks like. I don't play with people that emotionally insecure.
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Riotgear said:
Is there ever a time when yes means no? Like for example if a person was somehow unqualified or unable to say yes unequivocally but did anyway. Would that then mean their 'yes' was unqualified and should have been and is, at least to an outside observer, in fact a 'no'?
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In my line of work we struggle with this question all the time, and it does come down to whether a person can be deemed consenting, which usually is a set of criteria for understanding not only the act itself but the potential consequences. I've been a part of some pretty heated debates just on the subject of what constitutes "consenting adults" let alone whether certain individuals had the right to say "yes" or "no". People take this sort of topic very personally for some reason.
 
Donovan said:
For legality's sake no must mean no unequivocally and instantly. As we see way too many times, it doesn't take a conviction to ruin a mans life, just an accusation. I have personally had to screech to a halt a couple times when somebody abruptly changed her mind, sobered up or recovered from the rufies quicker than expected. It is their right to put on the brakes.
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I said 'no' because you slipped me those roofies, asshole!
 
Riotgear said:
Is there ever a time when yes means no? Like for example if a person was somehow unqualified or unable to say yes unequivocally but did anyway. Would that then mean their 'yes' was unqualified and should have been and is, at least to an outside observer, in fact a 'no'?
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Yes is the word that comes with the option to change, in my opinion.

And the reason "no" is and should be final, is that ambiguity you mentioned. A woman who is conflicted during sex can very easily be swayed one way, only to have "morning after regrets" when the heat of passion is gone. Then, if at any point she actually said "Whoa let's stop" she still can claim nonconsent in order to soothe her own guilt. It is the responsibility of the man to recognize this and act accordingly.
 
Donovan said:
People take this sort of topic very personally for some reason.
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I agree. I'm trying to gain some insight on why that is.
I have a feeling people don't like the gravity (somewhere down deep) of a final statement. It's a pigeon hole or a corner painted into. Remember eloisel's fancy hats? I think it makes us feel as if we might be missing out on something that may be just around the corner. But hey, what do I know - no means no unequivocally right ladies?

Wait are you saying sometimes yes means no or it should?
 
Riotgear said:
I agree. I'm trying to gain some insight on why that is.
I have a feeling people don't like the gravity (somewhere down deep) of a final statement. It's a pigeon hole or a corner painted into. Remember eloisel's fancy hats? I think it makes us feel as if we might be missing out on something that may be just around the corner. But hey, what do I know - no means no unequivocally right ladies?

Wait are you saying sometimes yes means no or it should?
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Like anything else, it's about maintaining a sense of control over a situation. We control precious little in our lives, no matter what we're talking about, and people like the feeling of having that "out" card whether they plan to use it or not. It's a universal desire, and goes way beyond sex for women and for men.
 
Riotgear said:
Do you think no has always meant no? Also do you think we interpret the rules governing so called 'no means no' differently depending on our gender?

When a woman say no means no does she mean the same thing as when a man says no means no?

It seems like eloisel says "no means no w/ option"
and you say "no means no w/ serious implication"

Correcting + or - a degree for eloisel's clever ability to sidestep that which is implied :)
Click to expand...

I mean no means no and depending on the context that may include an option.
 
Riotgear said:
I tend to interpret 'No' as a final. It seems women think of 'no' as final with option to change. Which in my mind is more dangerously dynamic then I care for (I'm speaking sexually now). The problem is nowadays women want people to hear 'no' as final without option which is the classicly male interpretation. I wonder if women are really ready to opt out of their intrinsic option. I sure hope so because we all been learned up good now aint we?
Click to expand...

So, if the woman says "no" to sex with you on a first date, or at just meeting, then you think that there is no future in the relationship?
 
I KNOW!

How about when someone is staying with you for 3 days and you say no because you are really tired, you are going to have sex eventually, and again, but not at that moment. You really just want to rest for a freaking moment. You say No. They start nibbling on your ear, you tell them to stop, they keep trying to "seduce" you. You leave the room, they follow you.

Then you hit them over the head with a shovel and burry them in the backyard.

Or how about when the person starts to bite your buttons off your shirt and they are drunk and something about a shoe?

Or how about when your sex crazed girl friend is on top of you and your hands are tied down and she is getting off and all you can do is watch. And then you have sex for 5 hours and then she wants more. THen WHAT?!
 
Riotgear said:
I agree. I'm trying to gain some insight on why that is.
I have a feeling people don't like the gravity (somewhere down deep) of a final statement. It's a pigeon hole or a corner painted into. Remember eloisel's fancy hats? I think it makes us feel as if we might be missing out on something that may be just around the corner. But hey, what do I know - no means no unequivocally right ladies?

Wait are you saying sometimes yes means no or it should?
Click to expand...

Dude this whole freaking conversation is ridiculous to me. The men say no to me! I am raping them!
(kidding)
I don't bring a guy home if I don't want to fuck him. I don't go to his house expecting to just sit eat hors d' oeuvres. No I want the full meal.
 
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