Anyone find the sudden opposition to the 14th amendment fishy?

[Conchaga]

I mean, right after a judge used it as a way to support gay marriage, there's an uproar to get rid of it.

It's also really fishy that they attack it using the excuse of illegal immigrants, who, they don't have to worry about getting votes from.

Loads of bullshit.

 

[SAUSAGEMAN]

I mean, right after a judge used it as a way to support gay marriage, there's an uproar to get rid of it.

Nope. Happened other way round. Lindsey Graham turned on the 14th amendment before prop 8 was overturned.

It's also really fishy that they attack it using the excuse of illegal immigrants, who, they don't have to worry about getting votes from.

It's not an unclassic move. In times of economic uncertainty, the right turns on immigrants and tries to appeal to people's fears about brown people stealing white jobs.

(It also tries to appeal to people's fears and prejudices in times of economic certainty, but they try to keep it to sex.)

 

[Conchaga]

Well, the heat got turned WAY up on all the news media the DAY after prop 8 was shot down.

 

[Dirk Funk]

Repealing or even watering down the 14th Amendment is a terrible and dangerous idea. I know the idea behind it is "We'll show those illegals. Now they won't have a reason to have kids here." The problem with that is, it doesn't solve the problem. It only creates new ones. Such as, instead of having the same amount of illegals and a bunch of new citizens that pay taxes and are accounted for, we now have TRIPLED or QUADRUPLED the amount of illegals in the country. In fact, we've created a way to breed illegals, not just import them. So we've gone from a moderate problem with illegals to a fucking nightmare. The people who advocate this kind of thing really don't think far enough ahead. The 14th Amendment is far too important to be fucking with. Especially for petty little vendettas.

 

['Gear]

Repealing or even watering down the 14th Amendment is a terrible and dangerous idea. I know the idea behind it is "We'll show those illegals. Now they won't have a reason to have kids here." The problem with that is, it doesn't solve the problem. It only creates new ones. Such as, instead of having the same amount of illegals and a bunch of new citizens that pay taxes and are accounted for, we now have TRIPLED or QUADRUPLED the amount of illegals in the country. In fact, we've created a way to breed illegals, not just import them. So we've gone from a moderate problem with illegals to a fucking nightmare. The people who advocate this kind of thing really don't think far enough ahead. The 14th Amendment is far too important to be fucking with. Especially for petty little vendettas.

Is there anyway we can figure out how to profit by breeding illegals on purpose?

Granted I may be way out on a limb here, but maybe it's time we start taking these whites to task for stealing all the brown jobs.

I have a shitty job and I'm not giving it up to a brown guy. No way. So maybe I'm part of the problem.

Do we know if the browner you get the more likely you are to be guilty of job theft? Is a job considered stolen if there's someone there working it and they are brown?

On second thought maybe I just don't understand the problem.

 

[Dirk Funk]

Is there anyway we can figure out how to profit by breeding illegals on purpose?

Granted I may be way out on a limb here, but maybe it's time we start taking these whites to task for stealing all the brown jobs.

I have a shitty job and I'm not giving it up to a brown guy. No way. So maybe I'm part of the problem.

Do we know if the browner you get the more likely you are to be guilty of job theft? Is a job considered stolen if there's someone there working it and they are brown?

On second thought maybe I just don't understand the problem.

Well, the problem is more complicated than a lot of people make it out to be. People who rattle on and on about "brown people" are generally just race-baiting because they have nothing of substance to add to the discussion. Once someone starts with the race-baiting they've pretty much conceded the argument anyway. The real issues are economic, human rights and national security in nature.

The obvious national security issues first. If people come in and out without us knowing who they are, it's likely not just the migrant farm workers who are taking the opportunity to sneak past the gates. MS 13 is a prime example, as are any number of foreign drug cartels, and organized crime.

Then we move on to economic and human rights. The two of these are so intertwined, it didn't make sense to separate them. It's not as simple as "Them dang Mexicans is stealin' our jobs" or as the other side says "They're doing jobs Americans won't do." Both of which are simplistic and asinine. When you have a large amount of people who aren't supposed to be in the country, you have people who are willing to work for less than minimum wage, and in terrible working conditions out of desperation. Companies take advantage of the cheap labor, and eventually jobs that were once good paying, relatively safe professions are now bottom of the barrel occupations in dangerous circumstances. This further depresses wages all across the board, not just in those areas. So, no these aren't jobs "American's won't do" They're jobs Americans won't do for below minimum wage and in unsafe conditions.

This also leads to an epidemic of human trafficking and slavery. Human smugglers bring people here for a price - often times everything that person has - with the promise of a good job. When the person or family gets here however, then comes the bait and switch. They tell them it wasn't enough, and they have to work off the rest of the debt. This debt mysteriously never gets paid off. They are told that if they complain, nobody will miss them because nobody knows they're here. However, even if they sneak over of their own accord, they have minimal legal protections, and often times are abused by employers who use their status as a "bargaining" tool. Saying they'll take what they're given, or else they'll turn them over to immigration.

This also leads to a secondary problem of cultural isolation. People who are here illegally, often tend to stay in culturally isolated groups. Thus are are less likely to learn English, and assimilate into mainstream American society. This further hurts them economically and makes them easier targets for exploitation, as they often are unwilling to report crime to authorities out of fear of being deported.

What I would suggest a few things as part of the solution. Tighten security at the borders, but also provide a way to streamline the immigration process and make better classifications for migrant workers, so we know who's here, and what they're here for. Don't waste money on stupid shit like mass deportations. Try to get people accounted for, and if they aren't committing crimes other than entering the country illegally, get them on the path to residency. Let's not forget the people who have been standing in line while other people are cutting in line. They deserve first priority since they've been trying to do things the right way. I have a friend who moved here from Canada because he married an American woman. He could have just come over, but he wanted full residency. It took him two fucking years. It pissed him off to no end that people were able to just sneak through while he had to wait.

 

['Gear]

Well, the problem is more complicated than a lot of people make it out to be. People who rattle on and on about "brown people" are generally just race-baiting because they have nothing of substance to add to the discussion. Once someone starts with the race-baiting they've pretty much conceded the argument anyway. The real issues are economic, human rights and national security in nature.

The obvious national security issues first. If people come in and out without us knowing who they are, it's likely not just the migrant farm workers who are taking the opportunity to sneak past the gates. MS 13 is a prime example, as are any number of foreign drug cartels, and organized crime.

Then we move on to economic and human rights. The two of these are so intertwined, it didn't make sense to separate them. It's not as simple as "Them dang Mexicans is stealin' our jobs" or as the other side says "They're doing jobs Americans won't do." Both of which are simplistic and asinine. When you have a large amount of people who aren't supposed to be in the country, you have people who are willing to work for less than minimum wage, and in terrible working conditions out of desperation. Companies take advantage of the cheap labor, and eventually jobs that were once good paying, relatively safe professions are now bottom of the barrel occupations in dangerous circumstances. This further depresses wages all across the board, not just in those areas. So, no these aren't jobs "American's won't do" They're jobs Americans won't do for below minimum wage and in unsafe conditions.

This also leads to an epidemic of human trafficking and slavery. Human smugglers bring people here for a price - often times everything that person has - with the promise of a good job. When the person or family gets here however, then comes the bait and switch. They tell them it wasn't enough, and they have to work off the rest of the debt. This debt mysteriously never gets paid off. They are told that if they complain, nobody will miss them because nobody knows they're here. However, even if they sneak over of their own accord, they have minimal legal protections, and often times are abused by employers who use their status as a "bargaining" tool. Saying they'll take what they're given, or else they'll turn them over to immigration.

This also leads to a secondary problem of cultural isolation. People who are here illegally, often tend to stay in culturally isolated groups. Thus are are less likely to learn English, and assimilate into mainstream American society. This further hurts them economically and makes them easier targets for exploitation, as they often are unwilling to report crime to authorities out of fear of being deported.

What I would suggest a few things as part of the solution. Tighten security at the borders, but also provide a way to streamline the immigration process and make better classifications for migrant workers, so we know who's here, and what they're here for. Don't waste money on stupid shit like mass deportations. Try to get people accounted for, and if they aren't committing crimes other than entering the country illegally, get them on the path to residency. Let's not forget the people who have been standing in line while other people are cutting in line. They deserve first priority since they've been trying to do things the right way. I have a friend who moved here from Canada because he married an American woman. He could have just come over, but he wanted full residency. It took him two fucking years. It pissed him off to no end that people were able to just sneak through while he had to wait.

My wife is from sweden. I marred her there and brought her back. It took her eight years to get a green card.

 

[Dirk Funk]

My wife is from sweden. I marred her there and brought her back. It took her eight years to get a green card.

That's completely unacceptable. The system is beyond broken.

 

[jack]

That's fucked up. Is she pretty?

 

[eloisel]

I mean, right after a judge used it as a way to support gay marriage, there's an uproar to get rid of it.

It's also really fishy that they attack it using the excuse of illegal immigrants, who, they don't have to worry about getting votes from.

Loads of bullshit.

Actually, not being legal to vote is not stopping illegal immigrants from doing so.

Voter registration cards are routinely issued without any checking of identification. Illegal immigrants have also used other false identification, such as social security card, in order to get a voter registration card. Illegal immigrants can use a voter registraton card for many difmmferent purposes, including obtaining a driver's license, qualifying for a job, and even voting. The Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986 requires employers to verify that all newly hired employees present documentation verifying their identity and legal authorization to work in the United States. This means that new employees have to present evidence that they are either U.S. citizens or legal aliens with a work permmmit. The federal I-9 form that employers must commmplete for all new employees provides a list of documentation that can be used to establish idenmmtity—including a voter registration card.

 

[dogbert]

Is there anyway we can figure out how to profit by breeding illegals on purpose?

Granted I may be way out on a limb here, but maybe it's time we start taking these whites to task for stealing all the brown jobs.

I have a shitty job and I'm not giving it up to a brown guy. No way. So maybe I'm part of the problem.

Do we know if the browner you get the more likely you are to be guilty of job theft? Is a job considered stolen if there's someone there working it and they are brown?

On second thought maybe I just don't understand the problem.

Sure you just breed workers for your factory.

 

[eloisel]

don't know what happened to my post - apparently I was liking the letter "m" a great deal. My apologies for the mess of typos.

 

['Gear]

That's fucked up. Is she pretty?

I think so. She's tall (5' 11") and skinny. Then main thing is she's super cool, friendly and easy to hang out with. I have lots to worry about. Like anyone else. But not my marriage. It's the easiest thing in my life. I'm very fortunate.

 

[SAUSAGEMAN]

Actually, not being legal to vote is not stopping illegal immigrants from doing so.

Voter registration cards are routinely issued without any checking of identification. Illegal immigrants have also used other false identification, such as social security card, in order to get a voter registration card. Illegal immigrants can use a voter registraton card for many difmmferent purposes, including obtaining a driver's license, qualifying for a job, and even voting. The Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986 requires employers to verify that all newly hired employees present documentation verifying their identity and legal authorization to work in the United States. This means that new employees have to present evidence that they are either U.S. citizens or legal aliens with a work permmmit. The federal I-9 form that employers must commmplete for all new employees provides a list of documentation that can be used to establish idenmmtity—including a voter registration card.

Citation needed.

(Because this is false.)

 

[SAUSAGEMAN]

I know it's false, of course, because the Bush Department of Justice spent a significant amount of resources looking for exactly this kind of voter fraud, and came up with zilch. There was a whole scandal that took down the AG and everything! But I guess we can't let facts get in the way of eloise and Dirk's racism.

 

[Dirk Funk]

I know it's false, of course, because the Bush Department of Justice spent a significant amount of resources looking for exactly this kind of voter fraud, and came up with zilch. There was a whole scandal that took down the AG and everything! But I guess we can't let facts get in the way of eloise and Dirk's racism.

Race baiting again? Concession accepted. Hey, when you can't argue facts, start screaming "racist" and maybe people won't notice that you don't have a real argument. Especially since neither of us said anything even remotely racist. Thank you for playing.

 

['Gear]

Race baiting again? Concession accepted. Hey, when you can't argue facts, start screaming "racist" and maybe people won't notice that you don't have a real argument. Especially since neither of us said anything even remotely racist. Thank you for playing.

I was almost race baited once - I was sitting at a stoplight, listening to The Three Tenors, planning my chicken and rice dinner and considering my investments while I thought about joining Joel Osteens church in Texas. So some kid in a souped up car pulled up along side me. He revved his engine, trying to bait me into racing. Well, I pulled my tiny wooden cross down from the rearview mirror and because it was nighttime I pulled out my lighter and lit the cross. So he could see it you understand. I held it by the chain out the window, burning brightly. That way he would know I'm a christian and not about to be race baited.

 

[eloisel]

I know it's false, of course, because the Bush Department of Justice spent a significant amount of resources looking for exactly this kind of voter fraud, and came up with zilch. There was a whole scandal that took down the AG and everything! But I guess we can't let facts get in the way of eloise and Dirk's racism.

Links. And, while you are at it, prove you aren't a piece of shit.

 

[SAUSAGEMAN]

Links. And, while you are at it, prove you aren't a piece of shit.

Here you go.

And Dirk, I save my racism accusations for you and eloisel, because I do truly believe that, in your heart of hearts, you feel uncomfortable around non-white people, and that's reflected by your attitudes towards immigration and the downtown Manhattan mosque. Your brand of "libertarianism for whites, authoritarianism for browns" is one of the most disgusting political positions I've had the pleasure of being exposed to.

 

[eloisel]

Here you go.

And Dirk, I save my racism accusations for you and eloisel, because I do truly believe that, in your heart of hearts, you feel uncomfortable around non-white people, and that's reflected by your attitudes towards immigration and the downtown Manhattan mosque. Your brand of "libertarianism for whites, authoritarianism for browns" is one of the most disgusting political positions I've had the pleasure of being exposed to.

Interesting that you pick and choose out of that article what you want to support your skewed POV. However, it supports what I wrote:

Mistakes and lapses in enforcing voting and registration rules routinely occur in elections, allowing thousands of ineligible voters to go to the polls. But the federal cases provide little evidence of widespread, organized fraud, prosecutors and election law experts said.

Now, you are stupid. In my heart of hearts another person's ethnicity is not the issue. It is about people who come to this country and refuse to learn the language, and, instead demand that I learn theirs. If that disgusts you I really don't care because in your heart of hearts you are a liar.