Menu
What's new
Troll Kingdom

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

Being Non-PC in BDSM - No Safe-words

Others need pain to move past guilt issues they have with their sexuality.
Click to expand...
But in this case, isn't the use of pain masking whatever issues are causing that guilt over sexual issues, and aren't you doing your submissive a disservice by using this mask for your own end, instead of encouraging her to get therapy, and finally resolve the underlying issues?

I've talked about the "freedom of chain or rope". Consider this, what takes more will? Being told "Hold this position" while you are touched, nibbled, teased, and brought to the edge of orgasm and held there for an extended time...or being tied up and the same sensual acts performed. It is an act of Will, a strong one, for a submissive to submit WITHOUT any physical restraint. I have heard it compared to a focused meditation, trying to maintain what she's been asked to do as opposed to just relaxing in the rope.

As I have said before: It isn't a demonstration of power to tie a woman to the bed-posts, Power is in ordering her to stay there with nothing more than a whisper and a look.

The fetish, Miss Friday, is Power.
Click to expand...
I can see the attraction in being ordered to react (or not react) a certain way during sex. I'm not against forceful men in the bedroom (to an extent). But it is the extreme I am very uncomfortable with. Table saw? SB, the very thought of that makes me queasy (tho that might be the flu ;) ). I'd be afraid to take a look into your bedroom. I swear I'd back out slooooowly (again, not judging. As TS said, I'd be way out of my comfort zone).

So Power is the what this all boils down to. Power over your submissive. And i guess from the submissive's point of view, the forfeit of power is the fetish.

All this still seems like stepping away from what sex is supposed to be about...a sharing of spirit and emotion. It all seems so mechanical and clinical.
 
Friday said:
True enough...


I can kind of understand about the pain thing. I tried a gay friend's nipple clamps once. They hurt a little, but it was exciting at the same time. Then again, the pain was negligible. Anything more uncomfortable, for me, and it wouldn't have that tinge of pleasure. Odd, that.

Fear in an adult relationship? I don't think so. Not for me. I couldn't fear someone and feel safe with them simultaneously.
Click to expand...

You're misunderstanding, still. It isn't fear in the sense of mortal terror. It's fear of the same kind you feel watching a horror film or riding a "scary" amusement park ride. If there were genuine fear, you're quite right, it wouldn't work. But it's not genuine fear, it's the simulacrum we indulge in to thrill ourselves with.

What if the submissive just isn't in the mood to do the dishes that night, or really wants to go out and see a movie his/her owner doesn't want to see, and is told that he/she can't go? What happens then? It doesn't sound like compromise comes into play at all.
Click to expand...

In some D/s relationships, it doesn't. In others, it does. SB, for example, sounds like a very strict Dom, and that likely suits his wife to a tee or she wouldn't be his wife, would she? My Mistress is in fact quite flexible for the most part, with some boundaries very strictly defined and enforced. As in vanilla relationships, each D/s relationship is uniquely defined and suited to the couple (or more) involved in it.
 
For a long-term, day to day relationship one really needs to have time "out of mode". While pix is always under collar, I have no desire to control her every waking minute. She is free to go out with friends (in fact I insist on it, friends restore balance), take classes, etc. Total control all of the time is exhausting for the Dom, and damaging to the sub. I love her for things other than D/s...and there has to be time and space for all of those other things.

Remember, she's also a wife, and THAT is a partnership. We fight, disagree, etc. I DO have the option for the last word, but I pay for it in other ways if I abuse the power. This is the line between all of those who live in fantasy and those who do this in real life.

The real differences in our relationship is in the formality of role. That formality makes intimacy safer...

-SB
 
^ I take it you've never been married.

A grumpy wife makes for a grumpy slave. Even if I can say "it is so" and not be able to at least allow her to understand my point of view and reasoning means that the fight will crop up again, sooner or later.

D/s is, ultimately a circle. If she is entirely de-valued, then she's not going to give any energy into that circle. This is one of the hallmarks between abuse and D/s.

-SB
 
Sadistic Bastard said:
A grumpy wife makes for a grumpy slave. Even if I can say "it is so" and not be able to at least allow her to understand my point of view and reasoning means that the fight will crop up again, sooner or later.
Click to expand...

Yup. The thing most people not involved in a D/s relationship seem oblivious to is that it is a consensual arrangement.

Sometimes, "Yes, my Mistress" means, "I agree with You" and sometimes it just means, "I haven't made my mind up yet, and all you've done by refusing to hear my point of view is subtract Yourself from my decision-making process for the moment."
 
^ Interesting.

I can usually tell by expression when pix is actually making a decision on "cost", i.e. is it worth it to break protocol and fight now, or do I have fun for now and store this for later.

Females have long memories. It could be days before, at the table, out of mode, I hear "By the way, I'm still pissed off about ZZZ thing...even if I said 'Yes Master' at the time".

(chuckle)
-SB
 
Yep, that's frustrating as hell to hear. One of the reasons I take a 'speak now, or forever hold your peace' approach with a girl.
 
I thought of that, but then it'd make certain... services... impossible for her to provide. A ball of chocolate and peanut butter works just as well, and turns complaints from annoying into downright hilarious.
 
SB, I wouldn't say that being a masochist/bottom is incompatible with being a submissive. You can be both, though perhaps not both at the same time. Hm. I'll have to think on that.

Usually, I play as a bottom with "yellow" and "red" for safe words. I had a hard time using safewords at first, but came to realize that the Tops I'm playing with are relying on me to communicate where I'm at, and safe words are one way to do that. With some, there really isn't any need because they ask for more detailed feedback. Many will back off when they see body language or facial expressions that express the pain I'm in, even though that pain is well within my tolerances. Some, however, do not feel that they're doing their jobs until I've shouted a "yellow!"

When a Top or Dom says to me that he doesn't use safe words, I definitely want more information before playing with him. In a sub/Dom relationship, I think that safewords can be useful as a starting point when the two are still getting to know each other, but that it's something that naturally falls by the wayside as mutual understanding deepens. So I might insist on having one to begin with, then seeing how things develop. I suspect that with you or someone like you, I would not feel a need to use one.

I think that the girlies you describe are just trying to be smart and look out for themselves. There are Tops out there who will take advantage of subs who have trouble using safewords, you know. I wouldn't want to play with someone who refused to respect my limits; that's a good way to end up on the 11:00 news. But I may decide to play with someone who wants to push my limits, if I trust him enough.
 
So interestingly enough, in the time between when this thread was last active and when SB recently returned to it, I've explored my own Dom side a bit and learned the cartography of the other side of this coin.

I have to say, learning to express Dominance goes a long way toward making for a better submissive, and vice versa.
 
Oh, definitely, TS. One of my recent D/s partners is pretty new to the game, and I found that the more submissive I was with him, the more he became dominant; at the same time, the more he dominated me, the more submissive I felt. The two feed off of each other.
 
Mrs. Morrhigan, Delighted to see you!

There is nothing wrong with a safe word in the early stages, or for casual play. If people are too casual (or even too lazy) to spend the time out of mode to start to get a "feel" for limits, then they are a useful tool.
However, once I've decided to actually form a longer-term relationship, and certainly if I'm formally training someone, I don't expect to use them. Simply saying "Sir, I'm going numb/having a cramp/etc." is enough...
As for bottoming vs. submitting, one can bottom while submitting, but there is "just" bottoming. In that case, there is a sensual exchange rather than a Power exchange. I've stated before I enjoy a good, thuddy flogging. I place it in the same realm as a vigerous massage. However, while I may be the recipient of the tails, I'm the one saying "harder, more to the left...". A world of difference between being restrained and not having a say in what will happen next.

Also, as I've stated, one doesn't need to "bottom" to submit. Pain is only a useful tool if the sub receiving it reacts in the way you want. If she can't then pain is only a hindrance...OR it becomes an edge to work on slowly (as all "edge" play should progress).

Mr. Saint, yes...being on both sides of the leash will usually improve your performance. I'm glad you've been able to do some exploring.

And yes, Mrs. Morrhigan...that feedback loop/circle is one of the things I enjoy most about D/s.
 
Morrhigan said:
SB, I wouldn't say that being a masochist/bottom is incompatible with being a submissive. You can be both, though perhaps not both at the same time. Hm. I'll have to think on that.

Usually, I play as a bottom with "yellow" and "red" for safe words. I had a hard time using safewords at first, but came to realize that the Tops I'm playing with are relying on me to communicate where I'm at, and safe words are one way to do that. With some, there really isn't any need because they ask for more detailed feedback. Many will back off when they see body language or facial expressions that express the pain I'm in, even though that pain is well within my tolerances. Some, however, do not feel that they're doing their jobs until I've shouted a "yellow!"

When a Top or Dom says to me that he doesn't use safe words, I definitely want more information before playing with him. In a sub/Dom relationship, I think that safewords can be useful as a starting point when the two are still getting to know each other, but that it's something that naturally falls by the wayside as mutual understanding deepens. So I might insist on having one to begin with, then seeing how things develop. I suspect that with you or someone like you, I would not feel a need to use one.

I think that the girlies you describe are just trying to be smart and look out for themselves. There are Tops out there who will take advantage of subs who have trouble using safewords, you know. I wouldn't want to play with someone who refused to respect my limits; that's a good way to end up on the 11:00 news. But I may decide to play with someone who wants to push my limits, if I trust him enough.
Click to expand...

you do all that with Hambil? that's an image I did NOT need.
 
What image? You mean the image of Hambil in a PVC thong tying me to a bondage bed and doing unspeakable things with our clown-shaped dildo?
 
SB: Thank you, Sir, it's lovely to see you, too! It sounds like we're on the same page in regards to bottoming/submitting. As for the goth girlies, give them time... they'll either mature into a more nuanced understanding of D/s or move on to other things. If they're drawn to you and Doms like you, I suspect it will be the former. ;-)
 
Morrhigan said:
What image? You mean the image of Hambil in a PVC thong tying me to a bondage bed and doing unspeakable things with our clown-shaped dildo?
Click to expand...

actually just the image of you and Hambil turns my stomach, forget the bondage stuff. Welcome back to the board!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top