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Fuck the Troops

Conchaga said:
I do have to correct one misconception I read earlier. WW2 was indeed a war of defense for the united states. The war for our defense was only fought on one front. The Pacific battles between the US and Japan were a war of defense. They attacked our home soil and we defended ourselves. The whole Nazi thing was a preemptive defensive program to keep the Germans from doing what the Japanese did.
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The official version would make it a defensive war, while information released pertaining to Roosevelt's aggressive provocation makes it more offensive. This is outside the scope of the original point so I didn't bother to get into it.
 
The Amazing Messenger said:
The official version would make it a defensive war, while information released pertaining to Roosevelt's aggressive provocation makes it more offensive. This is outside the scope of the original point so I didn't bother to get into it.
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Provocation via words does not a war make. Blowing up Pearl Harbor on the other hand...
 
Conchaga said:
Provocation via words does not a war make. Blowing up Pearl Harbor on the other hand...
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Japan threw the first punch, but the US slept with its wife. It's been proven that Roosevelt did his best to provoke Japan into attacking Pearl Harbor, thus allowed the US to enter WWII. All of the things he did amount to treason, maybe, with the exception of freezing all Japanese assets in the United States, restricting trade and imposing an oil embargo, which might have been acts of war. In any case, it was not in the interests of security and defense to pick a fight.
 
Well, to get the US involved in a war, all we need for motivation is a bloody nose. After that, we don't stop until we've killed your entire family and everyone who ever knew them. Keyser Soze-style.

We Americans don't like to be fucked with. But if we're lazy and apathetic, all you have to do is show us a reason not to be and we utterly destroy anything that gets in the way of us sitting on our couches, watching our reality shows, listening to our satelite radio, and complaining about oil prices even when we've got one of the better oil prices in the world outside of the OPEC states. We love our freedoms and when we think someone is encroaching upon them, we kill them. End of story.

The government has lied to us before in order to get us involved in wars, why should this one be any different. WW2 as well, for that matter. All I was saying is that Japan threw diplomacy out the window and decided to be the Shoguns that they thought they were and shot first. That was a major mistake on their part. Had they not given the US an excuse to join the fight the world would be very different.

Also, Roosevelt might've been fighting to get into the war with Germany but congress wouldn't let him. So, he picked a fight with (the Klingonesque) Japan, knowing they couldn't turn it down. He had his excuse to get into a war.

Much like Bush did when he lied about Iraq having WMD's and the whole 9-11 conspiracy hootananny. He wanted a reason to start a fight, found one, and got into a fight. Plain and simple.

This isn't schoolyard rules, man. You can't just kick the other kid's butt for calling you names. You have to prove that he called you a name, and then get him to do something stupid so you can justify ramming your bike tire into his balls.

Long and short of it is, that Americans won't get involved in world affairs unless we really have to. A lot of times it takes our own government lying to us to get us all riled up and start fights. Otherwise, we just light another joint, change the channel from the news to Metalocalypse and zone out.
 
I don't disagree with most anything else you posted, but will add that aggressive 'defensive' wars and mass manipulation meant to manufacture support has been around since Rome.

Conchaga said:
All I was saying is that Japan threw diplomacy out the window and decided to be the Shoguns that they thought they were and shot first. That was a major mistake on their part. Had they not given the US an excuse to join the fight the world would be very different.
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Roosevelt had war set as a goal. How was Japan supposed to negotiate for that? Unless Japan captured the Philippines, within half a year it wouldn't have enough fuel to wage war to due being crippled by the US embargo. An embargo which today would be the equivalent of an act of war.

I can deny selling you a bottle of water in the desert when you are close to dehydration. Should I act surprised when you fight for it?
 
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