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Holocaust

Not funny Luci. And very stupid too. To argue all that jibber jabber you just typed up there, all I need to do is ask these two questions.

1. Why in the hell would anyone make that shit up?
2. Why would it take up a whole chapter in my highschool history text book?
 
Falcy Girl said:
Not funny Luci. And very stupid too. To argue all that jibber jabber you just typed up there, all I need to do is ask these two questions.

1. Why in the hell would anyone make that shit up?
Click to expand...

To generate massive levels of guilt and sympathy for themselves, which they could (and did) later translate into huge sums of money and political influence.

2. Why would it take up a whole chapter in my highschool history text book?
Click to expand...

To ensure that the guilt and sympathy levers are propagated from one generation to the next.

Now ask yourself this:

1. What happened to the earlier methods of "mass extermination" which originally accounted for the mythical six million? Here are a few examples:
A. "Death vans" (or, variously, trucks) which were supposedly used to gas hundreds of thousands of Jews using, of all things, diesel exhaust. (Hint: Diesel exhaust might make you queasy, but it doesn't have a high enough concentration of CO2 to kill anyone.)
B. "Electrocution chambers" (or, alternately, electrocution "conveyor belts.")

2. Do any of the dozens of photos featured in your high school textbooks actually match the captions under/beside them? Or do the captions simply suggest what the photos are supposed to indicate? FYI: A picture of shoes in black and white doesn't indicate "millions of victims", any more than a picture of shoes in color does. Photos of bodies are photos of bodies, not the cause of death or the nationality/ethnicity of the bodies.

3. Have you ever heard a rumor that made sense to you or was simply something you wanted to believe was true, then passed it on as the truth -- just because you believed it, rather than because you knew through evidence and analysis that it was a fact?

4. If the Holocaust story is a fact, rather than a belief, why are people imprisoned (and in some cases killed) for questioning it? That's an effect of fundamentalist religion, not of science.
 
Don't let SaintLucifer's "uncouth yes-man" troll throw you off. Maybe it happened like we're all supposed to believe it did; maybe not. But before you swallow anybody's story about historic events, don't you owe it to yourself to check the story out for yourself as much as you're able to make sure it actually does hold water? Especially a story that's been traded for as much money and power as the Holocaust has?
 
The Saint said:
But before you swallow anybody's story about historic events, don't you owe it to yourself to check the story out for yourself as much as you're able to make sure it actually does hold water? Especially a story that's been traded for as much money and power as the Holocaust has?
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In order to do that, I'd need hard evidence either way. But all that we've got now are witnesses and war vet stories. No more hard evidence is left.
 
Falcy Girl said:
In order to do that, I'd need hard evidence either way. But all that we've got now are witnesses and war vet stories. No more hard evidence is left.
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And therein lies the problem. Witnesses and war vets saw things they didn't understand and were told what they saw later. It's a fact that they saw something; it's what that something was that got filled in for them later or spun into a conspiracy theory for them by people who may or may not have been telling the truth.

We've all seen the video footage of the September 11th attacks. But conspiracy nuts have turned that same footage into half a dozen different stories, each a little more bizarre than the last, and people believe that, too.

My problem with the photos and film footage associated with the Holocaust is exactly the same. The photos don't actually show what the captions say they're supposed to be photos of. And all of the records of mass extermination, coincidentally enough, were written after the end of the war. You know that old saying about who it is that writes history? Yeah.
 
And just to be clear, my past trolling for fucks and chuckles on the subject aside:

I'm not saying you should believe the revisionists. I'm not saying you should believe the mainstream account.

I'm saying you shouldn't believe anybody. Belief is for religion, not textbooks, courthouses, capitol buildings and the taxpayers' wallets. Those are not the place for any one group's faith, and no one should be obligated on pain of imprisonment to take anybody's word for anything.
 
The Saint said:
And therein lies the problem. Witnesses and war vets saw things they didn't understand and were told what they saw later. It's a fact that they saw something; it's what that something was that got filled in for them later or spun into a conspiracy theory for them by people who may or may not have been telling the truth.

We've all seen the video footage of the September 11th attacks. But conspiracy nuts have turned that same footage into half a dozen different stories, each a little more bizarre than the last, and people believe that, too.

My problem with the photos and film footage associated with the Holocaust is exactly the same. The photos don't actually show what the captions say they're supposed to be photos of. And all of the records of mass extermination, coincidentally enough, were written after the end of the war. You know that old saying about who it is that writes history? Yeah.
Click to expand...

Problem is, I've been to Dachau. I've seen the bunkers. I've seen the gas chambers.

You have different accounts from different survivors that paint a very similar story, and it's very, very unlikely they would have gotten together to compare notes -- Anne Frank was already dead, Vlad Spiegalman (Maus) has a very detailed account as recorded by his son, Art and even then, the account appears to have been given with some reluctance; and so on and so forth.

Whether or not these accounts are true, to conjure such meticulous detail for the sake of generating sympathy and guilt would take massive amounts of effort, possibly considerable amount of time.
 
The Saint said:
To generate massive levels of guilt and sympathy for themselves, which they could (and did) later translate into huge sums of money and political influence.



To ensure that the guilt and sympathy levers are propagated from one generation to the next.

Now ask yourself this:

1. What happened to the earlier methods of "mass extermination" which originally accounted for the mythical six million? Here are a few examples:
A. "Death vans" (or, variously, trucks) which were supposedly used to gas hundreds of thousands of Jews using, of all things, diesel exhaust. (Hint: Diesel exhaust might make you queasy, but it doesn't have a high enough concentration of CO2 to kill anyone.)
B. "Electrocution chambers" (or, alternately, electrocution "conveyor belts.")

2. Do any of the dozens of photos featured in your high school textbooks actually match the captions under/beside them? Or do the captions simply suggest what the photos are supposed to indicate? FYI: A picture of shoes in black and white doesn't indicate "millions of victims", any more than a picture of shoes in color does. Photos of bodies are photos of bodies, not the cause of death or the nationality/ethnicity of the bodies.

3. Have you ever heard a rumor that made sense to you or was simply something you wanted to believe was true, then passed it on as the truth -- just because you believed it, rather than because you knew through evidence and analysis that it was a fact?

4. If the Holocaust story is a fact, rather than a belief, why are people imprisoned (and in some cases killed) for questioning it? That's an effect of fundamentalist religion, not of science.
Click to expand...

Damn, the moron FINALLY said something right. He is correct here. He finally admits the Holocaust never happened.
 
Bickendan said:
Problem is, I've been to Dachau. I've seen the bunkers. I've seen the gas chambers.

You have different accounts from different survivors that paint a very similar story, and it's very, very unlikely they would have gotten together to compare notes -- Anne Frank was already dead, Vlad Spiegalman (Maus) has a very detailed account as recorded by his son, Art and even then, the account appears to have been given with some reluctance; and so on and so forth.

Whether or not these accounts are true, to conjure such meticulous detail for the sake of generating sympathy and guilt would take massive amounts of effort, possibly considerable amount of time.
Click to expand...

There were no gas chambers. To build such would have been impossible, for they would have required special construction. Don't believe me, ask your own specialists in the field, in the states which have capital punishment. You saw 'gas chambers' which were constructed by the Allies AFTER the war. This has been proven again and again. Why have the Jews disallowed aerial reconaissance photos taken by the Allies from being shown? The Allies agreed with the Jew request because there WAS no Jew request. The Allies did not want the world to see that they were the REASON why you saw so many dead prisoners. Were there not images of starved prisoners? why do you think that is? You DO realise that food convoys on the way to the camps had the shit bombed out of them by the Allies? THIS is what the Allies wanted to keep hidden. They did not want the world to know that the prisoner suffering was actually the result of Allied actions.

All camps were tested for any sign of gassings. Did you know there was absolutely ZERO evidence of any mass-gassings? Zero. Nada. None. Even the Polish and German governments tested the camps with modern technology. Same result. Never happened. No gassings took place. It is all bullshit, designed to push forth the Zionist agenda of a new homeland for the fucking kikes. It worked better than had been expected, did it not? The world was so fraught with guilt they allowed the Jews to steal another people's country.

If, as you claim and I call bullshit, you had ever been to Dachau, then perhaps you could deny in front of the camp administrators that any holocaust ever happened and do so without being jailed, then perhaps I may believe so. If you were to categorically deny there was any holocaust, that the camp was a fraud, I can GUARANTEE you would be doing 5 - 10 in a jail cell. Now, I ask, WHY is that? Hmm? Why is it against the law to question history? Why has there been no mention of the fact that the MAJORITY of the prison population was not even Jewish?

Also, why has there been no mention of the Japanese atrocities which were FAR, FAR, FAR worse than anything the Nazis committed? Oh yes, there were no Jew prisoners amongst the Japanese camps. Uh huh.

The most telling of all, why were ALL of the top echelon Nazis executed? But not a single Japanese Imperial was executed? Why were there no war crimes tribunals for the Japanese, but only the Nazis? Why were they denied any chance at telling their stories? Why were camp guards who could not speak a word of English, yet wrote their confessions in a language they could not understand, beaten to a pulp? Why were nothing Nazis so vigorously hunted by the Jews after they had escaped Nazi Germany, only to be captured and EXECUTED with not a word? Why was the diary of a top Nazi discredited when it showed absolutely ZERO mention of atrocities against the Jews? Why is it every single wartime leader who ever penned his autobiography does not ONCE mention any holocaust in those memoirs written after the war? After all, SIX MILLION JEWS were killed, yet not a single peep from any of them about the subject. Why?
 
SaintLucifer said:
Damn, the moron FINALLY said something right. He is correct here. He finally admits the Holocaust never happened.
Click to expand...

You drool-cup wearing n00b, I'm not "finally admitting" anything. I was questioning the holocaust on this board before you ever showed up, you me-too-ing cockholster. And I've also never said, then or now, that it never happened; only that, due to the various inconsistencies and impossibilities within the story, it didn't happen for the motives, via the methods or on the scale that we're legally and/or socially obligated to believe it did, lastly that I find such a social/legal obligation to be a monstrous insult to free thought and that the ability and willingness of groups associated with the Holocaust (Including the state of Israel, AIPAC, the ADL and others) to turn their dead into bargaining chips to be utterly disgusting.
 
Bickendan said:
Problem is, I've been to Dachau. I've seen the bunkers. I've seen the gas chambers.
Click to expand...

I've been to The Star Trek Experience in Vegas. So? What's that prove? What you saw was a series of buildings. You didn't see when they were built, who built them or what happened in them. That part was filled in for you by someone with a story they want you to believe. That's the formula for telling a great lie -- facts that prove nothing one way or the other serve as the skeleton, the story the teller wants you to believe is the flesh laid over those bones, and your susceptibility to having your heartstrings yanked is the breath that gives the zombie life.

You have different accounts from different survivors that paint a very similar story, and it's very, very unlikely they would have gotten together to compare notes.
Click to expand...

Yes, rumors work like that.

Whether or not these accounts are true, to conjure such meticulous detail for the sake of generating sympathy and guilt would take massive amounts of effort, possibly considerable amount of time.
Click to expand...

All the way back to World War 1, perhaps? Almost the same story, exactly the same outcome. Huge sums of money.

http://websites.bnsi.net/~jden/SixMillionSouls1918.pdf

Image182.gif


Image183.gif


Image184.gif


Additionally:

Ilya Ehrenberg, Soviet Russia's leading propagandist would certainly have had access to anti-German propaganda from 20 years earlier. It's not the least bit implausible that he would have resurrected themes from earlier propaganda for his own work. Hence the resurrection of the same "six million" figure seen connected with the previous war, and why "six million" is still the number we're obligated to believe regardless of the fact that the figure on the memorial plaques at Auschwitz was officially revised downward from 4 million to 1.5 million.

http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v08/v08p507_Weber.html
 
The Saint said:
Lucy, you're an idiot. No one can go to any part of Europe and question the Holocaust without being imprisoned.
Click to expand...

*GASP!* You don't say?! Fucking moron. I am well-aware of that, dipshit. I am a NAZI, remember? You are just a wannabe. The shit I know would make you cry to your mommy. Now, do fuck off. Shit, I made the dumbfucks at Stormfront cry, and threaten me because I was TOO EXTREME.
 
The Saint said:
I've been to The Star Trek Experience in Vegas. So? What's that prove? What you saw was a series of buildings. You didn't see when they were built, who built them or what happened in them. That part was filled in for you by someone with a story they want you to believe. That's the formula for telling a great lie -- facts that prove nothing one way or the other serve as the skeleton, the story the teller wants you to believe is the flesh laid over those bones, and your susceptibility to having your heartstrings yanked is the breath that gives the zombie life.



Yes, rumors work like that.



All the way back to World War 1, perhaps? Almost the same story, exactly the same outcome. Huge sums of money.

http://websites.bnsi.net/~jden/SixMillionSouls1918.pdf

Image182.gif


Image183.gif


Image184.gif


Additionally:

Ilya Ehrenberg, Soviet Russia's leading propagandist would certainly have had access to anti-German propaganda from 20 years earlier. It's not the least bit implausible that he would have resurrected themes from earlier propaganda for his own work. Hence the resurrection of the same "six million" figure seen connected with the previous war, and why "six million" is still the number we're obligated to believe regardless of the fact that the figure on the memorial plaques at Auschwitz was officially revised downward from 4 million to 1.5 million.

http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v08/v08p507_Weber.html
Click to expand...

Fuck me, old news. I bet you didn't even know that Hitler was not the originator of the 'jewish question' or 'the final solution'. Do shut the fuck up. You are treading in my territory.
 
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