Interesting little story about corruption

[Sarek]

I am a person who is interested in not letting my country devolve into a society where every nuance of movement and speech is analyzed with the specific intent to prove criminal intent.

I think that was the basis for the Democrats arguments against Bush's wire tapping, surveillance techniques, and Guantanamo bay.

And while it may be Craig's word against a cops, it is also the cop's word against his. That is why a person is allowed to go to court to dispute the charges brought against them. A basic premise of our legal system is that a person can not be found guilty based on actions that are just as likely to be innocent as they are signs of criminal intent.

True. However, another common sense premise behind our legal system is you don't admit to a crime if you didn't commit it. Especially if you're a politician. It's kind of a career ender.

Besides, while cops can be dirty, I'll take the word of trained Police Officer over the word of a politician any day.

That cop specifically told Craig that he could plea guilty to a misdemeanor, pay the fine and be done with the whole situation or he could plead not guilty and go to court at which time the cop would swear Craig solicited sex from him. He did not say that he would give testimony that based on his experience the actions he witnessed Craig perform were indicative of intent to solicit sex.

I can guarantee you from years of experience on the stand that the officers experience will be examined. And there hasn't been any type of interview with the officer in question. So what has gotten out from the media is just the events as Craig described them.

Furthermore, declaring oneself innocent upon arrest is in no means evidence of guilt.

There are currently over 100,000 convicted criminals in the US penal system that agree with you.

While you continue to deflect the topic onto Republicans, you have still failed to address the issue of the persons arrested for corruption as described in the original article posted.

I'm just pointing out your bias against Democrats and laughing at your blatant deflection of the fact that Republicans are just as bad, if not worse when it comes to corruption.

But that's the problem. It's easy to defend a group you cheer on but, it's far easier to crucify a group you despise. And that's were I'm having the easier time with this argument.

I hate them all.

 

[eloisel]

You're the type of American Europeans just hate.

Now, I'm crying. My whole life has been about wanting the approval of Europeans. I need it. Crave it. Desire it above all else. What ever can I do to make Europeans like me?

 

[Gonad]

Hi, Eloisel

I'm just dropping by to point out that Sarek is not disagreeing with your original post in this thread. Nor is he defending the Democratic party. I like your Odie sig and I hope you keep it. Perhaps you are viewing this thread in the context of the Craig thread. I am not, and your posts in this thread suffer for it.

Gonad

 

[Colonel Kira's Left Tit]

That is about as accurate as you can get.

My theory is, we wipe out DC while government is in session and then start all over with new elected officials ACTUALLY ELECTED by the people. Then we pay them about 50,000 a year to work for us. And if they fail to do their job, are convicted of committing a crime or some other transgression, we dock their pay and toss their asses out the door or lock them up.

I'm sick of Washington fatcats.

Can I get an amen?

 

[eloisel]

Hi, Gonad,

Thanks for dropping by. Glad you like the Odie sig.

 

[eloisel]

I can guarantee you from years of experience on the stand that the officers experience will be examined. And there hasn't been any type of interview with the officer in question. So what has gotten out from the media is just the events as Craig described them.

Not exactly.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/08/30/craig.arrest/index.html?eref=rss_politics

Transcript of police interview of Sen. Larry Craig

CNN -- The following is an unedited transcript of an interview between police Sgt. Dave Karsnia and police Detective Noel Nelson with Sen. Larry Craig, R-Idaho, regarding a June 11 incident at the Minneapolis-St. Paul International Airport. Audiotapes and a transcript of the interview were released today.

Investigative Sgt. Dave Karsnia #4211 and Detective Noel Nelson of the Minneapolis Police Department intert 1162

(NN) INTERVIEW WITH Larry Craig (LC) Case 07002008

Larry Craig: Am I gonna have to fight you in court?

Dave Karsnia: No. No. I'm not gonna go to court unless you want me there.

LC: Cause I don't want to be in court either.

DK: Ok. I don't either.

(inaudible) DK: Urn, here's the way it works, urn, you'll you'll be released today, okay.

LC: Okay.

DK: All right. I, I know I can bring you to jail, but that's not my goal here, okay? (inaudible)

LC: Don't do that. You You

DK: I'm not going to bring you to jail

LC: You solicited me.

DK: Okay. We're going to get, We're going to get into that. (inaudible)

LC: Okay.

DK: But there's the, there there's two ways, yes. You can, you can, ah, you can go to court.

You can plead guilty.

LC: Yep.

DK: There'll be a fine. You won't have to explain anything. (inaudible) I know.

LC: Right.

DK: And you'll pay a fine, you be (inaudible), done. Or if you want to plead not guilty, ah, and I, I can't make these decisions for you.

LC: No, no. Just tell me where I am (inaudible) I need to make this flight.

DK: Okay. Okay. And then I go to people that are not guilty, then I would have to come to court and end up testifying. So those are the two things, okay. Did I explain that part?

LC: Yes

DK: Okay Urn, ah, I'm just going to read you your rights real quick, okay? You got it on?

Noel Nelson: Yep.

DK: Okay.

DK: Ah, the date is 6/11/07 at 1228 hours. Urn, Mr. Craig?

LC: Yes.

DK: Sorry about that. (ringing phone)

DK: You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used against you in court of law. You have the right to talk to a lawyer now or have a present, a lawyer present now or anytime during questioning. If you cannot afford a lawyer, one will be appointed to you without cost. Do you understand each of these rights the way I have explained them to you?

LC: I do.

DK: Do you wish to talk to us at this time?

LC: I do

DK: Okay Urn, I just wanna start off with a your side of the story, okay. So, a

LC: So I go into the bathroom here as I normally do, I'm a commuter too here.

DK: Okay.

LC: I sit down, urn, to go to the bathroom and ah, you said our feet bumped. I believe they did, ah, because I reached down and scooted over and urn, the next thing I knew, under the bathroom divider comes a card that says Police. Now, urn, (sigh) that's about as far as I can take it, I don't know of anything else. Ah, your foot came toward mine, mine came towards yours, was that natural? I don't know. Did we bump? Yes. I think we did. You said so. I don't disagree with that.

DK: Okay. I don't want to get into a pissing match here.

LC: We're not going to.

DK: Good. Urn,

LC: I don't, ah, I am not gay, I don't do these kinds of things and...

DK: It doesn't matter, I don't care about sexual preference or anything like that. Here's your stuff back sir. Urn, I don't care about sexual preference.

LC: I know you don't. You're out to enforce the law.

DK: Right.

LC: But you shouldn't be out to entrap people either.

DK: This isn't entrapment.

LC: All right.

DK: Urn, you you're skipping some parts here, but what what about your hand?

LC What about it? I reached down, my foot like this. There was a piece of paper on the floor, I picked it up

DK: Okay.

LC: What about my hand?

DK: Well, you're not being truthful with me, I'm kinda disappointed in you Senator. I'm real disappointed in you right now. Okay. I'm not, just so you know, just like everybody, 1,1,1, treat with dignity, I try to pull them away from the situation

LC: 1,1

DK: and not embarrass them.

LC: I appreciate that.

DK: And I

LC: You did that after the stall.

DK: I will say every person I've had so far has told me the truth. We've been respectful to each other and then they've gone on their way. And I've never had to bring anybody to jail because everybody's been truthful to me.

LC: I don't want you to take me to jail and I think.

DK: I'm not gonna take you to jail as long as your cooperative but I'm not gonna lie. We...

LC: Did my hand come below the divider? Yes. It did.

DK: Okay, sir. We deal with people that lie to us everyday.

LC: I'm sure you do.

DK: I'm sure you do to sir.

LC: And gentleman so do I.

DK: I'm sure you do. We deal with a lot of people that are very bad people. You're not a bad person.

LC: No, I don't think I am.

DK: Okay, so what I'm telling you, I don't want to be lied to.

LC: Okay.

DK: Okay. So we'll start over, you're gonna get out of here. You're gonna have to pay a fine and that will be it. Okay. I don't call media, I don't do any of that type of crap.

LC: Fine.

DK: Okay.

LC: Fine.

DK: All right, so let's start from the beginning. You went in the bathroom.

LC: I went in the bathroom.

DK: And what did you do when you...

LC: 1 stood beside the wall, waiting for a stall to open. I got in the stall, sat down, and I started to go to the bathroom. Ah, did our feet come together, apparently they did bump. Well, I won't dispute that.

DK: Okay. When I got out of the stall, I noticed other other stalls were open. LC: They were at the time. At the time I entered, 1,1, at the time I entered, I stood and waited.

DK: Okay.

LC: They were all busy, you know?

DK: Were you (inaudible) out here while you were waiting? I could see your eyes. I saw you playing with your fingers and then look up. Play with your fingers and then look up.

LC: Did I glance at your stall? I was glancing at a stall right beside yours waiting for a fella to empty it. I saw him stand up and therefore I thought it was going to empty.

DK: How long do you think you stood outside the stalls?

LC: Oh a minute or two at the most.

DK: Okay. And when you went in the stalls, then what?

LC: Sat down.

DK: Okay. Did you do anything with your feet?

LC: Positioned them, I don't know. I don't know at the time. I'm a fairly wide guy.

DK: I understand.

LC: I had to spread my legs.

DK: Okay.

LC: When I lower my pants so they won't slide.

DK: Okay.

LC: Did I slide them too close to yours? Did I, I looked down once, your foot was close to mine.

DK Yes.

LC Did we bump? Ah, you said so, I don't recall that, but apparently we were close.

DK Yeah, well your foot did touch mine, on my side of the stall.

LC: All right.

DK: Okay. And then with the hand. Urn, how many times did you put your hand under the stall?

LC: I don't recall. I remember reaching down once. There was a piece of toilet paper back behind me and picking it up.

DK: Okay. Was your was your palm down or up when you were doing that?

LC: I don't recall.

DK: Okay. I recall your palm being up. Okay.

LC: All right.

DK: When you pick up a piece of paper off the ground, your palm would be down, when you pick something up.

LC: Yeah, probably would be. I recall picking the paper up.

DK: And I know it's hard to describe here on tape but actually what I saw was your fingers come underneath the stalls, you're actually ta touching the bottom of the stall divider.

LC: I don't recall that.

DK: You don't recall

LC: I don't believe I did that. I don't.

DK: I saw, I saw

LC: I don't do those things.

DK: I saw your left hand and I could see the gold wedding ring when it when it went across. I could see that. On your left hand, I could see that.

LC: Wait a moment, my left hand was over here.

DK: I saw there's a...

LC: My right hand was next to you.

DK: I could tell it with my ah, I could tell it was your left hand because your thumb was positioned in a faceward motion. Your thumb was on this side, not on this side.

LC: Well, we can dispute that. I'm not going to fight you in court and I, I reached down with my right hand to pick up the paper.

DK: But I'm telling you that I could see that so I know that's your left hand. Also I could see a gold ring on this finger, so that's obvious it was the left hand.

LC: Yeah, okay. My left hand was in the direct opposite of the stall from you.

DK: Okay. You, you travel through here frequently correct?

LC: I do

DK: Um,

LC: Almost weekly.

DK: Have you been successful in these bathrooms here before?

LC: I go to that bathroom regularly

DK: I mean for any type of other activities.

LC: No. Absolutely not. I don't seek activity in bathrooms.

DK: It's embarrassing.

LC: Well it's embarrassing for both.. I'm not gonna fight you.

DK: I know you're not going to fight me. But that's not the point. I would respect you and I still respect you. I don't disrespect you but I'm disrespected right now and I'm not tying to act like I have all kinds of power or anything, but you're sitting here lying to a police officer.

DK: It's not a (inaudible) I'm getting from somebody else. I'm (inaudible)

LC: (inaudible) (Talking over each other)

DK: I am trained in this and I know what I am doing. And I say you put your hand under there and you're going to sit there and...

LC: I admit I put my hand down.

DK: You put your hand and rubbed it on the bottom of the stall with your left hand.

LC: No. Wait a moment.

DK: And I, I'm not dumb, you can say I don't recall...

LC: If I had turned sideways, that was the only way I could get my left hand over there.

DK: it's not that hard for me to reach. (inaudible) it's not that hard. I see it happen everyday out here now.

LC: (inaudible) you do. All right.

DK: I just, I just, I guess, I guess I'm gonna say I'm just disappointed in you sir. I'm just really am. I expect this from the guy that we get out of the hood. I mean, people vote for you.

LC: Yes, they do. (inaudible)

DK: unbelievable, unbelievable.

LC: I'm a respectable person and I don't do these kinds of...

DK: And (inaudible) respect right now though

LC: But I didn't use my left hand.

DK I thought that you...

LC: I reached down with my right hand like this to pick up a piece of paper.

DK: Was your gold ring on your right hand at anytime today.

LC: Of course not, try to get it off, look at it.

DK: Okay. Then it was your left hand, I saw it with my own eyes.

LC: All right, you saw something that didn't happen.

DK: Embarrassing, embarrassing. No wonder why we're going down the tubes. Anything to add?

NN: Uh, no

DK: Embarrassing. Date is 6/11/07 at 1236 interview is done.

LC: Okay

 

[Sarek]

Not exactly.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/08/30/craig.arrest/index.html?eref=rss_politics

Transcript of police interview of Sen. Larry Craig

CNN -- The following is an unedited transcript of an interview between police Sgt. Dave Karsnia and police Detective Noel Nelson with Sen. Larry Craig, R-Idaho, regarding a June 11 incident at the Minneapolis-St. Paul International Airport. Audiotapes and a transcript of the interview were released today.

Investigative Sgt. Dave Karsnia #4211 and Detective Noel Nelson of the Minneapolis Police Department intert 1162

(NN) INTERVIEW WITH Larry Craig (LC) Case 07002008

Larry Craig: Am I gonna have to fight you in court?

Dave Karsnia: No. No. I'm not gonna go to court unless you want me there.

LC: Cause I don't want to be in court either.

DK: Ok. I don't either.

(inaudible) DK: Urn, here's the way it works, urn, you'll you'll be released today, okay.

LC: Okay.

DK: All right. I, I know I can bring you to jail, but that's not my goal here, okay? (inaudible)

LC: Don't do that. You You

DK: I'm not going to bring you to jail

LC: You solicited me.

DK: Okay. We're going to get, We're going to get into that. (inaudible)

LC: Okay.

DK: But there's the, there there's two ways, yes. You can, you can, ah, you can go to court.

You can plead guilty.

LC: Yep.

DK: There'll be a fine. You won't have to explain anything. (inaudible) I know.

LC: Right.

DK: And you'll pay a fine, you be (inaudible), done. Or if you want to plead not guilty, ah, and I, I can't make these decisions for you.

LC: No, no. Just tell me where I am (inaudible) I need to make this flight.

DK: Okay. Okay. And then I go to people that are not guilty, then I would have to come to court and end up testifying. So those are the two things, okay. Did I explain that part?

LC: Yes

DK: Okay Urn, ah, I'm just going to read you your rights real quick, okay? You got it on?

Noel Nelson: Yep.

DK: Okay.

DK: Ah, the date is 6/11/07 at 1228 hours. Urn, Mr. Craig?

LC: Yes.

DK: Sorry about that. (ringing phone)

DK: You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used against you in court of law. You have the right to talk to a lawyer now or have a present, a lawyer present now or anytime during questioning. If you cannot afford a lawyer, one will be appointed to you without cost. Do you understand each of these rights the way I have explained them to you?

LC: I do.

DK: Do you wish to talk to us at this time?

LC: I do

DK: Okay Urn, I just wanna start off with a your side of the story, okay. So, a

LC: So I go into the bathroom here as I normally do, I'm a commuter too here.

DK: Okay.

LC: I sit down, urn, to go to the bathroom and ah, you said our feet bumped. I believe they did, ah, because I reached down and scooted over and urn, the next thing I knew, under the bathroom divider comes a card that says Police. Now, urn, (sigh) that's about as far as I can take it, I don't know of anything else. Ah, your foot came toward mine, mine came towards yours, was that natural? I don't know. Did we bump? Yes. I think we did. You said so. I don't disagree with that.

DK: Okay. I don't want to get into a pissing match here.

LC: We're not going to.

DK: Good. Urn,

LC: I don't, ah, I am not gay, I don't do these kinds of things and...

DK: It doesn't matter, I don't care about sexual preference or anything like that. Here's your stuff back sir. Urn, I don't care about sexual preference.

LC: I know you don't. You're out to enforce the law.

DK: Right.

LC: But you shouldn't be out to entrap people either.

DK: This isn't entrapment.

LC: All right.

DK: Urn, you you're skipping some parts here, but what what about your hand?

LC What about it? I reached down, my foot like this. There was a piece of paper on the floor, I picked it up

DK: Okay.

LC: What about my hand?

DK: Well, you're not being truthful with me, I'm kinda disappointed in you Senator. I'm real disappointed in you right now. Okay. I'm not, just so you know, just like everybody, 1,1,1, treat with dignity, I try to pull them away from the situation

LC: 1,1

DK: and not embarrass them.

LC: I appreciate that.

DK: And I

LC: You did that after the stall.

DK: I will say every person I've had so far has told me the truth. We've been respectful to each other and then they've gone on their way. And I've never had to bring anybody to jail because everybody's been truthful to me.

LC: I don't want you to take me to jail and I think.

DK: I'm not gonna take you to jail as long as your cooperative but I'm not gonna lie. We...

LC: Did my hand come below the divider? Yes. It did.

DK: Okay, sir. We deal with people that lie to us everyday.

LC: I'm sure you do.

DK: I'm sure you do to sir.

LC: And gentleman so do I.

DK: I'm sure you do. We deal with a lot of people that are very bad people. You're not a bad person.

LC: No, I don't think I am.

DK: Okay, so what I'm telling you, I don't want to be lied to.

LC: Okay.

DK: Okay. So we'll start over, you're gonna get out of here. You're gonna have to pay a fine and that will be it. Okay. I don't call media, I don't do any of that type of crap.

LC: Fine.

DK: Okay.

LC: Fine.

DK: All right, so let's start from the beginning. You went in the bathroom.

LC: I went in the bathroom.

DK: And what did you do when you...

LC: 1 stood beside the wall, waiting for a stall to open. I got in the stall, sat down, and I started to go to the bathroom. Ah, did our feet come together, apparently they did bump. Well, I won't dispute that.

DK: Okay. When I got out of the stall, I noticed other other stalls were open. LC: They were at the time. At the time I entered, 1,1, at the time I entered, I stood and waited.

DK: Okay.

LC: They were all busy, you know?

DK: Were you (inaudible) out here while you were waiting? I could see your eyes. I saw you playing with your fingers and then look up. Play with your fingers and then look up.

LC: Did I glance at your stall? I was glancing at a stall right beside yours waiting for a fella to empty it. I saw him stand up and therefore I thought it was going to empty.

DK: How long do you think you stood outside the stalls?

LC: Oh a minute or two at the most.

DK: Okay. And when you went in the stalls, then what?

LC: Sat down.

DK: Okay. Did you do anything with your feet?

LC: Positioned them, I don't know. I don't know at the time. I'm a fairly wide guy.

DK: I understand.

LC: I had to spread my legs.

DK: Okay.

LC: When I lower my pants so they won't slide.

DK: Okay.

LC: Did I slide them too close to yours? Did I, I looked down once, your foot was close to mine.

DK Yes.

LC Did we bump? Ah, you said so, I don't recall that, but apparently we were close.

DK Yeah, well your foot did touch mine, on my side of the stall.

LC: All right.

DK: Okay. And then with the hand. Urn, how many times did you put your hand under the stall?

LC: I don't recall. I remember reaching down once. There was a piece of toilet paper back behind me and picking it up.

DK: Okay. Was your was your palm down or up when you were doing that?

LC: I don't recall.

DK: Okay. I recall your palm being up. Okay.

LC: All right.

DK: When you pick up a piece of paper off the ground, your palm would be down, when you pick something up.

LC: Yeah, probably would be. I recall picking the paper up.

DK: And I know it's hard to describe here on tape but actually what I saw was your fingers come underneath the stalls, you're actually ta touching the bottom of the stall divider.

LC: I don't recall that.

DK: You don't recall

LC: I don't believe I did that. I don't.

DK: I saw, I saw

LC: I don't do those things.

DK: I saw your left hand and I could see the gold wedding ring when it when it went across. I could see that. On your left hand, I could see that.

LC: Wait a moment, my left hand was over here.

DK: I saw there's a...

LC: My right hand was next to you.

DK: I could tell it with my ah, I could tell it was your left hand because your thumb was positioned in a faceward motion. Your thumb was on this side, not on this side.

LC: Well, we can dispute that. I'm not going to fight you in court and I, I reached down with my right hand to pick up the paper.

DK: But I'm telling you that I could see that so I know that's your left hand. Also I could see a gold ring on this finger, so that's obvious it was the left hand.

LC: Yeah, okay. My left hand was in the direct opposite of the stall from you.

DK: Okay. You, you travel through here frequently correct?

LC: I do

DK: Um,

LC: Almost weekly.

DK: Have you been successful in these bathrooms here before?

LC: I go to that bathroom regularly

DK: I mean for any type of other activities.

LC: No. Absolutely not. I don't seek activity in bathrooms.

DK: It's embarrassing.

LC: Well it's embarrassing for both.. I'm not gonna fight you.

DK: I know you're not going to fight me. But that's not the point. I would respect you and I still respect you. I don't disrespect you but I'm disrespected right now and I'm not tying to act like I have all kinds of power or anything, but you're sitting here lying to a police officer.

DK: It's not a (inaudible) I'm getting from somebody else. I'm (inaudible)

LC: (inaudible) (Talking over each other)

DK: I am trained in this and I know what I am doing. And I say you put your hand under there and you're going to sit there and...

LC: I admit I put my hand down.

DK: You put your hand and rubbed it on the bottom of the stall with your left hand.

LC: No. Wait a moment.

DK: And I, I'm not dumb, you can say I don't recall...

LC: If I had turned sideways, that was the only way I could get my left hand over there.

DK: it's not that hard for me to reach. (inaudible) it's not that hard. I see it happen everyday out here now.

LC: (inaudible) you do. All right.

DK: I just, I just, I guess, I guess I'm gonna say I'm just disappointed in you sir. I'm just really am. I expect this from the guy that we get out of the hood. I mean, people vote for you.

LC: Yes, they do. (inaudible)

DK: unbelievable, unbelievable.

LC: I'm a respectable person and I don't do these kinds of...

DK: And (inaudible) respect right now though

LC: But I didn't use my left hand.

DK I thought that you...

LC: I reached down with my right hand like this to pick up a piece of paper.

DK: Was your gold ring on your right hand at anytime today.

LC: Of course not, try to get it off, look at it.

DK: Okay. Then it was your left hand, I saw it with my own eyes.

LC: All right, you saw something that didn't happen.

DK: Embarrassing, embarrassing. No wonder why we're going down the tubes. Anything to add?

NN: Uh, no

DK: Embarrassing. Date is 6/11/07 at 1236 interview is done.

LC: Okay

I hadn't seen that before, but, it sounds like the officer had reasonable suspicion for the arrest. The bottom line is, Craig shouldn't have pleded guilty and paid a fine if he wasn't guilty.

The other thing that really bothers me is the fact that had it been a Democrat, I'm positive you'd be preaching the exact opposite of your stance on Craig.

 

[eloisel]

I'm just pointing out your bias against Democrats and laughing at your blatant deflection of the fact that Republicans are just as bad, if not worse when it comes to corruption.

Darling, you are being retarded. You are the one that posted the blatant "deflection."

But that's the problem. It's easy to defend a group you cheer on but, it's far easier to crucify a group you despise. And that's were I'm having the easier time with this argument.

I am neither defending nor crucifying one group or the other. I posted a story about public officials arrested for corruption. Please identify where I have crucified either Democratic state Assemblymen Mims Hackett Jr. and Alfred E. Steele or any of the others arrested.

Actually, you aren't winning any argument because you fail to discuss the issue presented. Instead, you point at Republicans. What have Republicans got to do with the officials in the story arrested for awarding government contracts in exchange for bribes? Or aren't Democratic officials capable of being corrupt without help from a Republican?

I hate them all.

I neither hate nor love them all. Many of them never even register on my radar. I am interested in those that make a direct impact on my life or I manage to see a headline about. These particular Democratic officials interest me because their scheme involved local officials and I work for a local government.

 

[eloisel]

I hadn't seen that before, but, it sounds like the officer had reasonable suspicion for the arrest. The bottom line is, Craig shouldn't have pleded guilty and paid a fine if he wasn't guilty.

I agree that the officer probably had reasonable suspicion based on his experience to stop and even ticket Craig. I also agree that Craig shouldn't have pled guilty. I do think that a prosecutor would dismiss the charges because the evidence is not sufficient to prove guilt. My objection to the whole thing is the willingness of people to allow this level of evidence - which is circumstantial at best - to establish guilt because the instant case involves a Republican. Regardless of the outcome, I do believe Craig should resign from his office as he has clearly reached a time in his life when he does not use the best judgment in making important decisions.

The other thing that really bothers me is the fact that had it been a Democrat, I'm positive you'd be preaching the exact opposite of your stance on Craig.

Ha, ha, ha, ha .... I wonder if missmanners, Caitronia, Curiousa2z and some of these people around here (or used to be around here) I've known long time remember when I defended Bill Clinton for 2 years on another board so very long ago.

 

[Sarek]

Darling, you are being retarded. You are the one that posted the blatant "deflection."

I posted a follow up. You NEVER claimed that this topic was about those particular individuals. In fact, your exact word were "Interesting, interesting." which leaves the topic of this thread open to interpretation. I interpreted it as a discussion of political corruption in general and posted addition examples.

I am neither defending nor crucifying one group or the other. I posted a story about public officials arrested for corruption. Please identify where I have crucified either Democratic state Assemblymen Mims Hackett Jr. and Alfred E. Steele or any of the others arrested.

Please, don't insult my intelligence. When a person bolds a portion of a post, it's to draw attention to that particular fact or bit of information. And in this case, you wanted it known that it was a case of a Democrat arrested for corruption.

Actually, you aren't winning any argument because you fail to discuss the issue presented. Instead, you point at Republicans. What have Republicans got to do with the officials in the story arrested for awarding government contracts in exchange for bribes? Or aren't Democratic officials capable of being corrupt without help from a Republican?

I think a good argument could be made for the vast amount of Republican corruption the last 7 years making it A LOT easier for anyone to embrace corruption, from local to foreign governments.

I neither hate nor love them all. Many of them never even register on my radar. I am interested in those that make a direct impact on my life or I manage to see a headline about. These particular Democratic officials interest me because their scheme involved local officials and I work for a local government.

So you've never seen a headline for Republican corruption that's piqued your interest and made you want to post about?

 

[jack]

BS and BS.

I question the willingness of the citizens of this country to allow a person to be bullied into pleading guilty to a crime based on circumstantial evidence. That isn't being a hardliner for any party. The hardliners are the idiots that are willing to allow this to happen because it is a Republican.

He's trying to "rescind" the guilty verdict. Unless there was coercion, he got his "due process". That issue is a strawman at this point wheezie. He did a homo thing in a homo area where there were so many complaints about how obnoxious and obvious that area was becoming for such activity that the police finally put someone down there to moitor it. BS on the "sting", Vice was responding to over 20 complaints about that kind of activity in that very restroom for weeks. If it walks like a homo and quacks like a homo, it's probably a homo. If he wasnt guilty, he should have had the courage to ask for his day in court and stand up to his accusers. Had he done that, this would be a completely different story. The idea that it was ANYTHING OTHER THAN HIS ACTIONS that created this situation is specious.

Deal with that. All because the little asshole was more concerned with his "rep" and paranoid about what some paper never even thought of doing to him.

My nickel says he'll get to keep his guilty verdict.

I wouldn't use him in this argument again Wheezie, because he's a perfect example of Lying Republican Fundamentalism.

Period.