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Joker : Jack Nicholson or Heath Ledger ?
- Thread starter Marquis De Sade
- Start date
MessengerX
New member
Those not relating to the Batman franchise, but I'd like to refine my opinion to something like: Yes, Ledger was good. He imitated an American really well, and his whiny, psycho-wannabe-voice was fairly convincing. Trouble is, despite his good performance, there are a hundred other better actors who would have done better as the Joker, without us having to endure his attempt, which was good, at having a high-pitched voice, instead of having someone more suited to the role.
Not many people are familiar with the true Joker Batman is supposed to face, but should they be blamed anymore for their ignorance than what they said about FF's Doctor Doom?
We should credit the unimaginative producers with having Ledger's Joker be nothing but Hannibal Lecter in makeup. Because that's all he was.
Conchaga
Let's fuck some shit up
He wasn't as controlled as Lecter, as I stated previously.
I really don't like comparing one of the greatest (yet fictitous) psychotic minds to a comic-gone-film villain. Lecter was on a level 500 times larger than Joker. Smarter, scarier, more ferocious, and let's face it, funnier. I'm not knocking Ledger's performance, but there's a reason why Anthony Hopkins is called "Sir".
But, more to the point. Lecter was all about control and stability. He wanted harmony and perfection. The Joker is the absolute opposite. Smart, but chaotic. Psychoanalytical, but puts it to use creating monsters and sowing mayhem. Lecter killed a musician because he made the orchestra sound bad and thought it'd be fun to feed him to the symphony's board to make up for his shortcomings. The joker makes a pencil disappear and ultimately doesn't succeed with his final bang. Big whoop...
Let's please try to refrain from comparing my all-time favorite anti-hero, Hannibal Lecter with a mediocre comic villain, like the Joker. They ARE NOT comparable.
The Question
Eternal
I think Nicholson's performance, for me, was gilded by my youth when I first saw it and the fact that 1989's Batman was the first incarnation I'd seen on any screen since the last rerun of the '60s television series. In short, it was the first time i'd seen any of the characters portrayed as anything but a ridiculous goofball. Nicholson's portrayal couldn't have been anything less than stellar, because the only thing to compare it to until Ledger's portrayal was premeditated drek. I'm not baggin' on Cesar Romero -- I'm baggin' on the showrunners who made 1960s series the campy garbage it was.
However, for me at least, Nicholson's Joker hasn't aged well when I look back at it. He can be taken seriously... but somehow Ledger's mad dog portrayal nudges Nicholson's out of the running. Nicholson's was insane -- Ledger's is super-sane, which is scarier.
However, for me at least, Nicholson's Joker hasn't aged well when I look back at it. He can be taken seriously... but somehow Ledger's mad dog portrayal nudges Nicholson's out of the running. Nicholson's was insane -- Ledger's is super-sane, which is scarier.
MessengerX
New member
I'm sure this discussion has faded, but:
The film-going public is 99% idiots. Any comparison to psychotic geniuses will probably always made with Hannibal Lecter, I think, and he was the first insane genius I thought off of the top of my head. Could you think of a better comparison? IMO, Ledger would fail shoulder to shoulder against the one you can think off the top of your head.
Heath Ledger was "Fresh, funny, a rip-roaring riot. An amazing, thought-provoking Joker" - etc. Beneath that well-honed laugh and the wild gesticulations, I see nothing especially captivating.
Maybe the Dark Knight's Joker had everything right, but was too 'slimy' for my tastes. But I don't think that's what makes my opinion of him so low; I think I don't find anything special about him at all. Ledger was tolerable at least, but Nicholson was easily likeable.
I was giving an example.
The film-going public is 99% idiots. Any comparison to psychotic geniuses will probably always made with Hannibal Lecter, I think, and he was the first insane genius I thought off of the top of my head. Could you think of a better comparison? IMO, Ledger would fail shoulder to shoulder against the one you can think off the top of your head.
Heath Ledger was "Fresh, funny, a rip-roaring riot. An amazing, thought-provoking Joker" - etc. Beneath that well-honed laugh and the wild gesticulations, I see nothing especially captivating.
Maybe the Dark Knight's Joker had everything right, but was too 'slimy' for my tastes. But I don't think that's what makes my opinion of him so low; I think I don't find anything special about him at all. Ledger was tolerable at least, but Nicholson was easily likeable.
Marquis De Sade
I came for the spankings
kekekekekeke
Indeed
Is that why his fanbase mainly consists of 14 year old marilyn manson fans and neo-nazis displaying The Joker's picture as their MSN/Yahoo/message board avatar, flooding the cyberspace with such crap as "TEH NEW JOKER RAWKS... ZOMG BEST MOVIE EV4R !!!", and predictably saying/writing some random-ass line spoken by the Joker at every opportunity ? WHY SO SERIOUS ? LET'S PUT A SMILE ON THIS FACE !
Definitely not. The humour was very shallow; the only line that bordered having half a brain cell when Ledger gracefully threw the : "here's my card" double entendu, otherwise all the TDK's humour was dumb and meant to appeal the audience talked about in the above paragraph. ZOMG HE MADE TEH PENCIL DISAPPEAR THAT'S LIEK SO FUCKIN COOL AND ADULT ... HAHAHAHAHAHHAAH.
And that's what made him great, he a multi-layered character. He had everything for everyone. A "happy meal figurine" for kids/idiotic adults, a textbook performance for the puritans, and some kick-ass lines for people who don't want their humour to be spoonfed to them.
eloisel
Forever Empress E
I thought Jeff Goldblum played a very good insane genious as the serial killer Mr. Frost. It was one of those kinds of movies that seemed to be mildly interesting while it was going on but later, you'd wake up in the middle of the night and it would be on your mind. Frost was damned creepy.
The Question
Eternal
I think that last part is one of the things they got right, actually. Nicholson's Joker, to me, seemed vengeful -- okay, classic villain. Ledger's Joker on the other hand is one seriously fucked up individual, making him both more credible and not terrifying, but horrifying, because there's that wild outside chance that any of us, put through (at least one of) the trauma(s) he relates very possibly could turn out like that. Nicholson's Joker fell in Bad Juju Magic Goop to turn out the way he did -- what are the odds? Ledger's was abused and disfigured as a kid (according to one of his stories.) Where Nicholson's Joker lost his mind, Ledger's enacting insane expressions of a very sane argument -- you can't count on anything. People do bad shit and no one can really save you -- here, let me demonstrate...
WAY freakier.
SuN
.:~**~.~**~.~**~:.
LOL
Yas, pple jst like urself, who quoted joker lines for like 6 fucking months in advance...oh, and still doing so...hypocrite!!
tsk tsk bitchface
Deep humour??
lol, now kindly STFU kthnx
Dark Pickle
Fucked Off
I think Marquis is one of those people who'll say ANYTHING for an argument...
The Question
Eternal
Funny, I think he's just a pretentious idiot. Which is why I also think he's WordInterrupted.