Our Torturer-in-Chief***Graphic Images***

[Sarek]

Oh, he definitely kicked his ass. What he didn't do was go into Iraq and kill or capture him. Considering how this invasion of Iraq is going, I think his reasoning was sound.

Oy.

That's got to be the dumbest line of reasoning I've read yet. "Bush senior didn't accomplish shit by invading Iraq, but boy, did he kick his ass."

I still think regime change was appropriate, that Saddam was a threat, that Iraq either had them or the capability of manufacturing chemical and biological weapons they would use. That Saddam aided al-Qaida and other terrorist networks is a fact. That Saddam considered himself the lone arab standing against the west is also a fact.

God I need an aspirin now.

Ok sweetheart, we'll try this one, one more time. George Bush PUBLICLY ADMITTED that there were no ties between Saddam Hussein and Al Qaeda or 9/11.

March 13, 2003

Bush Now Says What He Wouldn’t Say Before War: Iraq Had ‘Nothing’ To Do With 9/11.

President Bush was in the midst of explaining how the attacks of 9/11 inspired his “freedom agenda” and the attacks on Iraq until a reporter, Ken Herman of Cox News, interrupted to ask what Iraq had to do with 9/11.

“Nothing,” Bush defiantly answered.

To justify the war, Bush informed Congress on March 19, 2003 that acting against Iraq was consistent with “continuing to take the necessary actions against international terrorists and terrorist organizations, including those nations, organizations, or persons who planned, authorized, committed, or aided the terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001.”

As has been repeatedly documented, Vice President Cheney cited “evidence” cooked up by Douglas Feith and others to claim it was “pretty well confirmed” that Iraq had contacts with 9/11 hijackers.

More generally, in the lead-up to the war in Iraq, the administration encouraged the false impression that Saddam had a role in 9/11. Bush never stated then, as he does now, that Iraq had “nothing” to do with 9/11. Only after the Iraq war began did Bush candidly acknowledge that Iraq was not operationally linked to 9/11.

Full transcript:

BUSH: The terrorists attacked us and killed 3,000 of our citizens before we started the freedom agenda in the Middle East.

QUESTION: What did Iraq have to do with it?

BUSH: What did Iraq have to do with what?

QUESTION: The attack on the World Trade Center.

BUSH: Nothing. Except it’s part of — and nobody has suggested in this administration that Saddam Hussein ordered the attack. Iraq was a — Iraq — the lesson of September 11th is take threats before they fully materialize, Nobody's ever suggested that the attacks of September the 11th were ordered by Iraq.

^See that?^

NATIONALLY TELEVISED TO A LIVE AUDIENCE. THAT'S NOT SOMETHING SOMEONE JUST PULLED OUT OF THEIR ASS. THOSE WERE REAL WORDS SPOKEN BY A REAL LIAR. PERIOD. YOU CAN NOT SAY HE NEVER SAID THAT.

Unless you're a Republican with blind loyalty and a loose grip on reality.

In my opinion, the current Bush failed when the Saudi king told him to go into Iraq, get the WMDs, then get out. Bush should have said, "Fine. You go with me." Then, when Saddam was toppled and no WMDS found, we could have left the Saudis to handle the aftermath. The Saudis were the ones most at risk from Saddam as dictator of Iraq. The Saudis are the ones most at risk if Iraq is taken over by the Shias which would align itself with the Iranian Shias.

And Boo Boo stole Yogi's picnic basket.

 

[Kefka]

I suggest you check yours. Mine are based on intelligence reports dating back into the 70s

OK, checked.

If anything, Saddam detested Al-Queda and was far more secularist than you'd expect.

Iraq was put on a list of nations harboring terrorists because it gave shelter to Iranian nationals who opposed the Islamic Revolution.

while yours are conclusory self-serving statements to bolster your hatred of Bush and all things Republican.

You forgot Democrats. I hate them almost as much as I hate parrots like you when it comes to geopolitics (even more than Bush).

 

[Eggs Mayonnaise]

In my opinion, the current Bush failed when the Saudi king told him to go into Iraq, get the WMDs, then get out. Bush should have said, "Fine. You go with me." Then, when Saddam was toppled and no WMDS found, we could have left the Saudis to handle the aftermath. The Saudis were the ones most at risk from Saddam as dictator of Iraq. The Saudis are the ones most at risk if Iraq is taken over by the Shias which would align itself with the Iranian Shias.

As long as we need so much of their oil, the Saudis own us. That's why we do their dirty work for them. Pity people like Bush and Cheney won't just come out and say it.

 

[The Question]

Sarek wrote:

You fucking conservatives seem to treat Bush like a god who can do no wrong. You have no more clue as to what’s gone on behind closed doors or under the table with this administration than the average American.

You just can't conceive of the fact that Bush cares about the American soldiers and government employees working under him. That's sad, not to mention bizarre.

What's sad and bizarre is how far you'll go to ignore the fact that he's deployed and lost thousands of American servicemen and -women to a red herring military campaign, sinking this nation trillions of dollars into foreign debt as a nice little bonus, while not only failing to decisively punish the alleged mastermind behind 9/11 but declaring openly this country's status as Israel big brother and thus painting a bullseye for jihadists on the back of every American at home and abroad by so doing.

Yeah, he gives a big ol' steaming shit -- right on each and every one of our heads.

 

[Kefka]

Trillions, you say?

 

[Sarek]

That's only the money the Republicans can actually account for. At the rate they spend, a few billion slips through the cracks on occasion.

 

[Kefka]

^BUT BUT THIS MEANS THAT YOU LOVE TERRORISTS AND SADDAM?!?!?!?

Do you contest this? Are you trying to say that the world isn't some silly manichean play between good vs. evil, right vs. left, black vs. white? GOOD GOD, MAN, YOU'RE ASKING THE IMPOSSIBLE

 

[eloisel]

Originally Posted by eloisel
Oh, he definitely kicked his ass. What he didn't do was go into Iraq and kill or capture him. Considering how this invasion of Iraq is going, I think his reasoning was sound.

Oy.

That's got to be the dumbest line of reasoning I've read yet. "Bush senior didn't accomplish shit by invading Iraq, but boy, did he kick his ass."

Sarek, Bush senior did not invade Iraq. He kicked Saddam out of Kuwait - which was the objective.

The following is an excerpt from Why We Didn't Remove Saddam by George Bush [Sr.] and Brent Scowcroft, Time (2 March 1998), which is also in Bush and Scowcroft's book, A World Transformed (Alfred A. Knopf, 1998):

While we hoped that popular revolt or coup would topple Saddam, neither the U.S. nor the countries of the region wished to see the breakup of the Iraqi state. We were concerned about the long-term balance of power at the head of the Gulf. Trying to eliminate Saddam, extending the ground war into an occupation of Iraq, would have violated our guideline about not changing objectives in midstream, engaging in "mission creep," and would have incurred incalculable human and political costs. Apprehending him was probably impossible. We had been unable to find Noriega in Panama, which we knew intimately. We would have been forced to occupy Baghdad and, in effect, rule Iraq. The coalition would instantly have collapsed, the Arabs deserting it in anger and other allies pulling out as well. Under those circumstances, furthermore, we had been self-consciously trying to set a pattern for handling aggression in the post-cold war world. Going in and occupying Iraq, thus unilaterally exceeding the U.N.'s mandate, would have destroyed the precedent of international response to aggression we hoped to establish. Had we gone the invasion route, the U.S. could conceivably still be an occupying power in a bitterly hostile land. It would have been a dramatically different--and perhaps barren--outcome.

Considering how this current invasion of Iraq is going, I believe Bush senior's reasoning to be sound.

 

[eloisel]

OK, checked.

If anything, Saddam detested Al-Queda and was far more secularist than you'd expect.

Iraq was put on a list of nations harboring terrorists because it gave shelter to Iranian nationals who opposed the Islamic Revolution.



You forgot Democrats. I hate them almost as much as I hate parrots like you when it comes to geopolitics (even more than Bush).

Dear, I'm sad that you hate me. I don't hate you even though you and I don't see eye to eye on much. However, when you say you hate me, please wipe your face clean of the rabid drool and cracker crumbs first. It truly is disgusting.

 

[Kefka]

Dear, I'm sad that you hate me.

I don't hate you even though you and I don't see eye to eye on much.

However, when you say you hate me, please wipe your face clean of the rabid drool and cracker crumbs first. It truly is disgusting.

How about this?

 

[Kefka]

And these?

Sorry fer disgusting you.

GOD BLESS AMERICA, from sea to shining sea! I'm quite proud to shake off the idea of a struggling people, building a nation from the wilderness. As I cast this all away I remind myself that America is really all about controlling the entire planet, and killing everyone who disagrees, so that peace and stability can be achieved.

Kill more sand-niggers, for peace!

 

[Rafterman]

Sorry fer disgusting you.

GOD BLESS AMERICA, from sea to shining sea! I'm quite proud to shake off the idea of a struggling people, building a nation from the wilderness. As I cast this all away I remind myself that America is really all about controlling the entire planet, and killing everyone who disagrees, so that peace and stability can be achieved.

Kill more sand-niggers, for peace!

This is the shit the liberal bias MSM don't have the balls to broadcast/print.

Just like they failed to report that Chavez received a thundering five minute standing O at the UN last week.

 

[Sarek]

Please don't ANYONE take my assault on the Bush administration as an assault on our troops. You need to remember, they are doing a job that they are trained to do. And a good portion of that training is to keep your mouth shut and carry out the orders that are given by your superiors without question.

I support them. I just don't support the crap decisions being made by idiots Like Bush, Cheney and Rummy.

 

[Sarek]

Sarek, Bush senior did not invade Iraq. He kicked Saddam out of Kuwait - which was the objective.

The following is an excerpt from Why We Didn't Remove Saddam by George Bush [Sr.] and Brent Scowcroft, Time (2 March 1998), which is also in Bush and Scowcroft's book, A World Transformed (Alfred A. Knopf, 1998):



Considering how this current invasion of Iraq is going, I believe Bush senior's reasoning to be sound.

I had to sit and think about this for a while because you are right. In a sense.

The mission objective was to liberate Kuwait and force Saddam's troops back across the border into Iraq. So in that, I guess you could call it kicking his ass.

Where Bush Sr. failed was in not following up and removing Saddam from power right then and there. We had the boots on the ground, the equipment was in theater and we had the support of the Muslim nations that mattered. Bush Sr. knew good and well that Saddam would become an even larger problem in the future. And he had the right to go after him when he attacked American troops stationed in Saudi and Kuwait with scuds and small arms. Hell, we were within miles of Baghdad when the stop order was called.

All that was achieved was pushing the puppy back into his own yard. But then the big dog was leashed and the puppy spent the next 12 years thumbing his nose at him.

As for the book, it's easy to write something 8 years later. It gives you a lot of time to think up plausible explanations as to why you got your ass handed to you. And when your kid is the Republican nomination for President in 2000, it’s might even make the best sellers list.

 

[The Question]

Trillions, you say?

Our government allows Mexican citizens to steal billions in illegal income and government benefits beyond those to which they can possibly contribute, every year.

Our government has also given Israel over $1.6 trillion in raw money, material goods and other assorted unfair and unearned benefits according to some estimates.

We're also currently in debt with foreign nations for far more than that.

 

[The Question]

I think that one sums it up just fine. I wonder who yelled something about "Church & State!" when that went up.

 

[bad dog]

Please don't ANYONE take my assault on the Bush administration as an assault on our troops. You need to remember, they are doing a job that they are trained to do. And a good portion of that training is to keep your mouth shut and carry out the orders that are given by your superiors without question.

I support them. I just don't support the crap decisions being made by idiots Like Bush, Cheney and Rummy.

Amen , its time to get the fuck out. "stay the course" is sounding dumber ever day and the cost in lives and our tax payers dollars get higher.

Our troops are not police, bring them home.

Our job is done there IMHO.

I am somewhat conservative too.