Troll Kingdom
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
Student Question of the Day
- Thread starter Number_6
- Start date
Grandtheftcow
Grand Wizard of TK
:lol:
See there’s nothing wrong with public education in America.
See there’s nothing wrong with public education in America.
Big Dick McGee
If you don't know, now ya know
This is why I refuse to have discussions or debates with college students. They're all idiots that don't know they're idiots, and instead claim to know everything about everything.
6, were you laughing you ass off when Will Hunting smacks down Dean Winters' character in Good Will Hunting??
6, were you laughing you ass off when Will Hunting smacks down Dean Winters' character in Good Will Hunting??
Laker_Girl
Mrs. Big Dick McGee
Grandtheftcow said:
And Canada is just churning out the Einsteins right? :lol: I guess not or you wouldn't assume that the student had attended a public school prior to going to college. :lol:
Grandtheftcow
Grand Wizard of TK
Laker_Girl said:
If you don't count high school as part of public education then I guess not
Number_6
beer, I want beer
Well, the student may have gone to a private high school. That's altogether a possibility, since I have several students who attended private high school and private grammar school. I also have a few home schooled students.
As far as the differences between U.S. and Canadian students, what little experience I've had teaching students from Canada indicates to me that there is little difference in the quality of education being received. Both are equally poor.
The best students I have generally come from Eastern Europe and Latin and South America. Asian students are also hard-workers, but they aren't particularly interested in learning the English language, so I don't rate them as high as a math or science professor might, and generally find the ESL issues a pain in the ass. And by Asia, I mean East Asia. Indian students generally perform quite well, too, as do Arab students, though they often have severe problems with female profs. Their English, however, is head and shoulders above East Asian students'.
What these regions have in common, however, is that they don't waste a lot of time with multiculturalism and self-loathing, as most schools in the Western world are wont to do. Instead, they focus intensely on the basics, and then build up students math, science, and critical thinking skills. Oh, these students are politically aware alright, but with the Eastern European and Latin American students in particular, their awareness is generally broader than Western students, who are generally fed a diet of pre-digested opinions to spit back out on exams.
This is why the third world kicks our ass on standardized test scores. They still teach the difficult stuff, and their standards are extremely high. They still appreciate the value of an education, whereas we take it for granted, and we have classrooms filled with ideologues who are more interested in demonstrating how science is a Western, male, imperial construct than in actually teaching science.
As far as the differences between U.S. and Canadian students, what little experience I've had teaching students from Canada indicates to me that there is little difference in the quality of education being received. Both are equally poor.
The best students I have generally come from Eastern Europe and Latin and South America. Asian students are also hard-workers, but they aren't particularly interested in learning the English language, so I don't rate them as high as a math or science professor might, and generally find the ESL issues a pain in the ass. And by Asia, I mean East Asia. Indian students generally perform quite well, too, as do Arab students, though they often have severe problems with female profs. Their English, however, is head and shoulders above East Asian students'.
What these regions have in common, however, is that they don't waste a lot of time with multiculturalism and self-loathing, as most schools in the Western world are wont to do. Instead, they focus intensely on the basics, and then build up students math, science, and critical thinking skills. Oh, these students are politically aware alright, but with the Eastern European and Latin American students in particular, their awareness is generally broader than Western students, who are generally fed a diet of pre-digested opinions to spit back out on exams.
This is why the third world kicks our ass on standardized test scores. They still teach the difficult stuff, and their standards are extremely high. They still appreciate the value of an education, whereas we take it for granted, and we have classrooms filled with ideologues who are more interested in demonstrating how science is a Western, male, imperial construct than in actually teaching science.
Big Dick McGee
If you don't know, now ya know
But, Professor, if we taught "the hard stuff" in our public elementary and high schools, some children would fail and be left behind, which would hurt their self-esteem! Why, I'm sure you'd suggest that only winning teams get trophies, instead of every kid who is on every time, including bench warmers. That's just mean and hurtful.
Seriously, everything seems to revolve around standardized testing now. The "No Child Left Behind" law seems to be a disaster. Schools are so focused on keeping their Federal funding, that they teach how to do well on standardized tests. They don't even teach kids the basics any more, just how to study and do well on standardized tests. At least, that's what I've heard from my teacher friends in Florida. It may be different elsewhere.
Seriously, everything seems to revolve around standardized testing now. The "No Child Left Behind" law seems to be a disaster. Schools are so focused on keeping their Federal funding, that they teach how to do well on standardized tests. They don't even teach kids the basics any more, just how to study and do well on standardized tests. At least, that's what I've heard from my teacher friends in Florida. It may be different elsewhere.
Number_6
beer, I want beer
Well, the biggest problem is that the teachers themselves are inadequately trained in their own fields. The core major requirements in English, math, history, etc. are whittled down in order to allow for a large number of education courses. This way the student can finish their undergrad degree in 4-5 years, and get the teaching credential as well.
The problem with this is that the education classes really don't teach much beyond simple common sense and--yep, you guessed it--ways to make students feel good about themselves and ways to make math and all the other subjects multicultural (whatever the fuck multicultural math means).
So you implement something like NCLB and teachers have little choice but to teach to the tests, because they don't really have the necessary background knowledge to just teach algebra or geometry in such a way that the concepts are clear.
When I was in California, you had to take a test called the CBEST in order to move along through the credential program. The math on that test was no higher than first-year algebra and the English was a joke. But you had people failing it and taking it multiple times. And these are the people teaching your kids.
The sad thing about NCLB is that there really shouldn't be a need to teach to these tests at all. They are fucking simple, and well below the grade level at which the students taking them should be at. What NCLB is revealing is not how stupid Americans are, or how underprivileged students are treated unfairly; no, what NCLB is revealing is just how shitty a job teachers are doing, and that's why the NEA doesn't like it.
The problem with this is that the education classes really don't teach much beyond simple common sense and--yep, you guessed it--ways to make students feel good about themselves and ways to make math and all the other subjects multicultural (whatever the fuck multicultural math means).
So you implement something like NCLB and teachers have little choice but to teach to the tests, because they don't really have the necessary background knowledge to just teach algebra or geometry in such a way that the concepts are clear.
When I was in California, you had to take a test called the CBEST in order to move along through the credential program. The math on that test was no higher than first-year algebra and the English was a joke. But you had people failing it and taking it multiple times. And these are the people teaching your kids.
The sad thing about NCLB is that there really shouldn't be a need to teach to these tests at all. They are fucking simple, and well below the grade level at which the students taking them should be at. What NCLB is revealing is not how stupid Americans are, or how underprivileged students are treated unfairly; no, what NCLB is revealing is just how shitty a job teachers are doing, and that's why the NEA doesn't like it.
Laker_Girl
Mrs. Big Dick McGee
Big Dick McGee said:
As someone very involved in children's education I don't find that the school focuses on standardized testing at all but on learning and retention. I'm bored to death with flash cards and reading assignments but I'll be damned if it doesn't work. My niece and nephew aren't just intelligent for their ages they're just intelligent.
Number_6
beer, I want beer
Laker_Girl said:
And here's another big problem--teachers want to be interested themselves in what they're teaching, never mind that the boring drill stuff is what actually works to get the stuff into the kids' heads. So they fill the curriculum with fluff to make the kids happy, and use their classrooms to push their own agendae.
And it's not just the early grades where this is a problem. Freshman composition, with which I am intimately familiar, has turned into a course in leftist politics, multiculturalism, and cultural studies, because that's what the instructors are interested in. Never mind that the students don't actually learn anything about writing; the instructors are kept interested in what they're professing, and that's all they really care about.
Big Dick McGee
If you don't know, now ya know
Number_6 said:
Wait, wait....since the education profession seems to appeal overwhelmingly to those whose politics skew to the left, and those same educators only teach what interests them, you mean to say that Universities in the United States are churning out student after student who has had left-wing ideaologies drilled into them their entire school career. SHOCKING!!
Professor 6, do you find it..."ill advised" to speak openly and publicly about your own political beliefs that happen to skew more right? Would it open you up to derision from your colleagues?
Number_6
beer, I want beer
I rarely speak of my political beliefs with my colleagues. There are only two people who know I lean right, and one of them leans right herself. The other leans left, but is a liberal, rather than a leftist. I make this distinction because I don't find most of my colleagues very liberal at all.
I don't talk a lot about pedagogy with my colleagues, either. The few times I have have gotten me into deep trouble, so I just keep quiet and teach my classes my own way. I still get into a bit of trouble, though, when I get student evaluations which praise me and slam the rest of my department for not doing their job. But there's nothing I can do about that, save sell out and dumb down my courses like everyone else has.
So, yeah, I pretty much stick to myself, and only talk about entertainment and how poorly our students write. I rarely offer any solutions; just engage in a lot of hand-wringing, which seems to be our collective response to the problem, since we obviously aren't in a position to do anything about it, what with being their teachers and all.
I don't talk a lot about pedagogy with my colleagues, either. The few times I have have gotten me into deep trouble, so I just keep quiet and teach my classes my own way. I still get into a bit of trouble, though, when I get student evaluations which praise me and slam the rest of my department for not doing their job. But there's nothing I can do about that, save sell out and dumb down my courses like everyone else has.
So, yeah, I pretty much stick to myself, and only talk about entertainment and how poorly our students write. I rarely offer any solutions; just engage in a lot of hand-wringing, which seems to be our collective response to the problem, since we obviously aren't in a position to do anything about it, what with being their teachers and all.
Number_6
beer, I want beer
Friday said:
Because you want to react, and from predetermined positions which you are not even bothering to think about as you read what I've written.
Why not read what I've said and consider my reasons for thinking what I think? Consider that perhaps you have been brainwashed by the educational establishment to believe a bunch of nonsense about what we're supposed to be doing in school. Consider the numbers, which indicate that schools are not doing their jobs. Consider the numbers from overseas, where students are excelling in precisely the areas the educational establishment considers impossible tasks.
Consider those teachers I've told you about, who could not pass the CBEST test. Consider students who were in an English grammar class I took as an undergrad, all of them seeking their secondary ed credential in English. Most could not even identify parts of speech in a sentence, much less move on to more complex grammatical ideas.
Stop and think. Don't react. Don't provide the same canned defense of multiculturalism you've been provided with by the educational establishment.
Friday
Bazinga!
Okay. I've had a cup of tea to relax, now I'm ready. Sort of.
I was sitting here, listening to The Weavers (an old folk music group from the 50's/60's), and I realized something. 6 is right about something...the liberal indoctrination of education. I never questioned it until recently.
The only public school I attended in the primary grades was kindergarten, in 1968. I vividly remember, at 5 years old, singing songs like If I Had A Hammer, Michael Row The Boat Ashore, Blowin' In The Wind, Study War No More, and This Land Is Your Land at assemblies throughout the year. It was my first introduction to that "dreaded" folk music.
My question that I am just now asking, after all these years...why was I singing folk songs (a liberal animal, if ever there was one) in school?
After that year, I attended Catholic school for the next 8 years. Ironically, this was right after Vatican II, in which the Catholic church became somewhat "modernized". There were nuns that were reveling in their new found freedom, to the point where some of them taught from a liberal standpoint.
I was a marked woman.
Mind you, the quality of education was excellent. The school didn't teach anything but the basics (not even electives). I even remember having to diagram sentences in the sixth grade ( ). The term "multiculturalism" hadn't even been coined yet...I don't think. I came away with a solid foundation of the three "r's".
For me, my own personal education, and what I teach, was never questioned. It simply was what it was...no left/liberal agenda. Now I'm just beginning to look under the sheets. Actually, I'm lifting them up at proverbial gunpoint ( ).
If the facts you cite are true, 6, then education is in dire need of reform. However, I still find myself holding on to my views on the subject. Tightly. With the Grip Of Death.
I'll tell you what...I'll be walking the halls Monday with a more critical eye than before, and really examining what is being taught...and what is being learned.
I was sitting here, listening to The Weavers (an old folk music group from the 50's/60's), and I realized something. 6 is right about something...the liberal indoctrination of education. I never questioned it until recently.
The only public school I attended in the primary grades was kindergarten, in 1968. I vividly remember, at 5 years old, singing songs like If I Had A Hammer, Michael Row The Boat Ashore, Blowin' In The Wind, Study War No More, and This Land Is Your Land at assemblies throughout the year. It was my first introduction to that "dreaded" folk music.
My question that I am just now asking, after all these years...why was I singing folk songs (a liberal animal, if ever there was one) in school?
After that year, I attended Catholic school for the next 8 years. Ironically, this was right after Vatican II, in which the Catholic church became somewhat "modernized". There were nuns that were reveling in their new found freedom, to the point where some of them taught from a liberal standpoint.
I was a marked woman.
Mind you, the quality of education was excellent. The school didn't teach anything but the basics (not even electives). I even remember having to diagram sentences in the sixth grade (
). The term "multiculturalism" hadn't even been coined yet...I don't think. I came away with a solid foundation of the three "r's".For me, my own personal education, and what I teach, was never questioned. It simply was what it was...no left/liberal agenda. Now I'm just beginning to look under the sheets. Actually, I'm lifting them up at proverbial gunpoint (
).If the facts you cite are true, 6, then education is in dire need of reform. However, I still find myself holding on to my views on the subject. Tightly. With the Grip Of Death.
I'll tell you what...I'll be walking the halls Monday with a more critical eye than before, and really examining what is being taught...and what is being learned.
Mandi
New member
My schooling sucked. We learned the same thing over and over again in history. Our math teacher didn't know what he was doing half the time. English class was a bird course, we usually had to read a book and make a collage. Science, I don't even remember it, only had to take two years. Wood Shop, what good is that class other than for slicing off fingers? The only class I ever took that I found semi-useful was my typing and business classes, and in those we learn how to use MS Excel and powerpoint and shit......plus almost all of the time the staff was fighting the parents. So yeah, I may be an idiot.