Supposed Feminism

[Mirah]

Greetings!
My English Composition class has suddenly turned into a discourse on feminism and how the world is not fair for women and unequal.

The teacher says the word "feminism" is a movement supported by both men and women and she also talked about 3 waves of feminism:
The first being: Women's right to vote
The second being: Women's right to work outside of the home if they choose and receive equal pay and equal job positions.
The third wave, which we are in right now is about women having the right to make choices. (Very broad she admits) But it is about being able to choose to stay home now if a woman wants or work, or whatever.

So, now that she has defined the definition of feminism we have certain readings and films to watch.
One of the films is "Killing us Softly" by Jean Kilbourne. It is about the effect of media on our culture. And we read something by Susan Bordo.
I also recently watched "Perfect Vagina" posted by a member at another board. (Strange how it just fit in with what I am studying)
The thing I noticed is that most of the references were to women who are in the UK and not in the USA. The ads they used as examples seemed to mostly be from Britain as well.
I get it.
We (women, men, people) are not supposed to compare ourselves to the images in the media, because they are false anyway.
I get it.
The media is only trying to sell a product.
I get it.
Men and women or boys and girls may be influenced by the images they see, when they try to compare their bodies or their mates bodies to those images.
Personally I think it is a distraction from other more important issues. But if I had a teenage daughter, would I be able to prevent her from comparing herself to these airbrushed models?

I am past the point of knowing that I need to look like a person in a magazine or live up to someone else's standards or ideals. I think most of us are.

My second point is that one of the readings spoke about role models for children. Why is fucking Britany Spears your daughter's role model? Why are you using Disney as a means to educate and raise your child? The problem is with parenting and not what the popular media and culture are doing.

Agree or Disagree?

And also Echkhart Tolle is my most recent inspiration.

I posted this here, because I hoped to carry on some conversation with some certain individuals whom I spoke with the other day.

Carry on! : D [FONT=&quot][/FONT] [FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

 

[Archibald Nixon]

Here, try this one out on your class:

How many feminists does it take to change a light bulb?

Spoiler

JUST ONE

 

[NeonMercuryASH]

And I can do it all by myself. Why is Brittany Spears a role model? No one's ever heard of Wendy Friedman.

One small falacy. Right to choose? Choose what? Stay home? That won't fly. Most men don't choose and that will cause more friction. Unfortunately, choice on a global scale, is down to the most basic. Choose? Choose what? Your name? Your children's names? Are they your children?

The dynamic has changed. We are now sharing space with the burka. They are so oppressed, that they can never free themselves. They can only imprison us.

 

[The Tomtrek]

Personally I think it is a distraction from other more important issues. But if I had a teenage daughter, would I be able to prevent her from comparing herself to these airbrushed models?

I am past the point of knowing that I need to look like a person in a magazine or live up to someone else's standards or ideals. I think most of us are.

You are because you're a well read adult woman, the most impressionable people are the teenage girls who are confused enough about what's happening to their bodies during puberty, and don't need the peer pressure to look like what the media deems to be 'good'. Basically, they don't know better. And don't forget that it's usually not as on the nose as someone looking at a thin girl and going "WHY AREN'T I THAT THIN?". It's more subtle than that, it's the constant use of women as objects in adverts, as things only for sex, that subtlety influence the people reading them.

My second point is that one of the readings spoke about role models for children. Why is fucking Britany Spears your daughter's role model? Why are you using Disney as a means to educate and raise your child? The problem is with parenting and not what the popular media and culture are doing.

Agree or Disagree

Yes it is to a degree - a parent should influence their child and help them be better people. But as we all know there gets a point where we look away from our parents as role models and look elsewhere, usually to places that parents don't want you to look to. How many things did you like as a teenager because your parents hated it? So really it's a problem with both parenting and popular media.

Of course I'm really not one to tell you what it's like to be a teenage girl so feel free to tell me I'm wrong!

 

[Mirah]

You are absolutely right on Tomtrek! I appreciate you responding. There was a time when I read all of those magazines! My aunts used to have pictures from them of what they wished to look like.
And then there was a time when I was angry about the fake images and the guys who looked at it saying stuff like, "Wow that girl is so skinny".
I think the other people it affects the most are those that are being chopped and air brushed too. Look at all the actresses with eating disorders, etc etc etc.

 

[NeonMercuryASH]

It's true. They have gotten one magazine to admit in print when the images portrayed are overly airbrushed and " thinned" back to the 17 inch waist line of the 19th century.

 

[Ilyanna]

The problem is with parenting and not what the popular media and culture are doing.

Agree or Disagree?

Yes and no.

At the root is pure biology: infants learn from imitating their elders, whether that be cats, moles, humans, or fish. It's necessary for survival, since not everything is congenital. Back in the very early days, peer pressure used to have the purpose of ensuring that children learn to behave so they won't get hurt / damage the social community. That's basically what education, upbringing is about; positive/negative reinforcement.

I guess that worked pretty well as long as everyone was on a par with what the desired behavior was, and that is directly linked with the no. of people in the peer group. The more people, the more ideas on what's right or wrong. In a stone-age community, there would have only been a handful of people a child would know, all of them having the same goals and (probably) conceptions. Today, a child in our culture is growing up in a literally global environment, being influenced by whatever it gets into contact with. Unfortunately, choosing which role model to follow is not a conscious process, so imo, there is no way parents can direct their children's choice of role models enough to keep them from absorbing society's stereotypes, at least not while taking part in everyday-life.
What parents can do, though, is teach their children to recognize said stereotypes and paradigms in media and culture, and to identify those in their own heads, and stop acting on them. Additionally, it's the parent's generation that is in charge of the media and culture, both by creating and by consuming it, so of course we can influence that: for example by not buying from companies or reading magazines/watching shows that apply those stereotypes.

But if I had a teenage daughter, would I be able to prevent her from comparing herself to these airbrushed models?

A major problem is that the concepts of what constitutes acceptable behavior and appearance usually are given from one generation to the other. Why do parents today not succeed in changing the Thin = Good stereotype? Because they have grown up believing it, and their parents before them, and most us know just how fucking difficult it is to recognize and free oneself from paradigms. I daresay that in general, even the most conscious of mother will "instinctively" react more positively to her girl losing a pound than to her gaining one, and I have yet to see a father not displaying instant pride by his daugther being considered "pretty" by today's standards (slender, smooth skin, nice hair ). So while parents aren't necessarily the ones exerting the pressure, they are bound to reinforce the stereotypes because it is what they have grown up to believe. Ask yourself what criteria you use to decide if a woman is attractive or not. How did you obtain those criteria? Was it a conscious act? If not, how will you not act on them when your child is around, thus exemplifying that kind of judgement to them throughout their childhood?


So, to sum it up - no, I don't think you'd be able to,

a) because you're alone against millions of people who act as role models with regards of what your children perceive as "beautiful", all of them not giving a fuck about what's good for them.

b) because while you might consciously be past the point of having to live up to society's standards, your ideal of beauty is based in the subconsciousness. Additionally, you will still want your children to be successful and liked, so you will probably influence their choice of clothing and "styles" to those that will, in your opinion, help in that.

 

[Mirah]

New Topic: Breasts and Breastfeeding

The next essay I get to read is about a woman who discusses that breasts are either sexual or serving a function of feeding an infant, but never both at the same time.
She says that our breasts are on display for all to comment, then we get pregnant, (still on display for those to comment on their growth), and then we have a baby and begin nursing and everyone (American Culture) wants us to put it away.

 

[jack]

Thats very interesting. From the male perspective, all female sexual attractiveness is designed for procreation.

 

[jack]

Ive got to find some pics of 40 and fifty year old pregnant women.

 

[Mirah]

Next

So my next essay, due in 1 week is on Our bodies as Text.

Who is writing the text?

Who is reading it? Interpreting it?

And then a whole slew of questions on gender and how do I view gender and how does societies view of gender influence me? IT DOESN'T!
And is gender nurtured or natural or both?

And finally, "Is my view of the body shaped by its physical makeup, its reproductive ability or marketability?"

Neither it is shaped by its function? Can it wake up? YEs. GOod. Can it see? Yes. Good.
Does it feel? Yes good?
Can I feed it? Does it expell waste? Can I walk, talk, communicate? All yes? And can I modify it if and when I want? Yes. YES YES

My Body Works Fine!

 

[Mirah]

Ive got to find some pics of 40 and fifty year old pregnant women.

Yes. The writing was very biased. I have not experienced the distaste towards pregnant women or women who are nursing. I find it attractive myself and think it is natural and not to be scorned.

I wonder if the incidences of women being asked to cover up while nursing is a lot fewer than the article makes it out to be.

 

[NeonMercuryASH]

Breast feeding is something we are uncomfortable with, simply because it's something that ties us to the animals, something that men DON'T do. Worst of all, to be able to afford an artificial bottle, was an is a status symbol. The human race is so uncomfortable, that African mothers were feeding their infants formula, at malnutrition levels, in order to use a bottle. Even though as Feminists, we revere our breast as " sacred" food, it has through the length of human history been a source, of women oppressing other women. The converse is that, it was a source of independence for women who had nothing but their own milk, to sell.

 

[Cassie]

It's weird to me that a woman's nipples and areolae are considered indecent but a man's aren't (in the West).

 

[Loktar]

It's weird to me that a woman's nipples and areolae are considered indecent but a man's aren't (in the West).

Yeah it's weird to me that men with huge mantits aren't required to wear a bra/bro to cover up.

Its weird that its frowned upon for women to wear nothing but bra and panties, but its ok if they wear a binkini whixh is essentially the same thing.

 

[NeonMercuryASH]

However, the bikini is welcome only on a beach. I lived 20 blocks from South Beach for years. When you leave the sand, you better have a cover up.

 

[headvoid]

I find a lot of men's chest quite indecent.

It's an aesthetic thing, not a sexuality thing.

 

[Fuddlemiff]

Yeah, men with boobs should cover up. They always seem to be the first to take their shirts off and go strolling down the streets on hot days.

 

[Loktar]

Yeah, men with boobs should cover up. They always seem to be the first to take their shirts off and go strolling down the streets on hot days.

Not me, I only take my shirt off within the confines of the house when I'm by myself. My brother(roktar) however is the opposite, he'll take his shirt off every opportunity he can. Ew.

 

[SAUSAGEMAN]