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Why are we going after Iran, again?

The move was not really directed towards Iran. Suspension of enrichment was a major negotiation point at the least; demanding concessions prior to negotiations was something that wouldn't fly. I don't doubt for a minute the administration knew damn well that Iran wouldn't take them up on it.

However, it's a very sharp political move. By making that statement, the US shifts the blame to Tehran as being unwilling to come to the table instead of Washington - and the fact that Washington has been categorically refusing to even consider talks with Tehran for many years makes the offer stand out enough abroad to work.
 
Gurk_MacGuintey said:
As a sidebar, it might be helpful for you to understand that IRL I have Phd's, decades of experience and publishing credits that would make the children in your little TK Writers Workshop weep.

I'll see your sidebar and raise you this footnote: No one gives a fuck. All your accumulated awards and accolades and huzzahs and kudos won't buy you 10 oz. of coffee in a styrofoam cup here. And based on both your composition and conduct, I'm going to assume that Ph.D. in your case only stands for "Piled Higher, Deeper."

On a daily basis I chew up and spit out guys like your godling, Skinofevil ... and guys like you, Messman? I got chunks of guys like you in my stool.

Then maybe you'd care to explain why you can't seem to replicate those feats here. Maybe you'd better go back to hand-sifting your own shit.
 
The Question said:
I'll see your sidebar and raise you this footnote: No one gives a fuck.

I don't expect anyone to. I was just informing your hollowman friend, Messenger, that he is outgunned and outclassed. I find it amusing that he attempts to debate from a standpoint of knowledge and scholarship when it is embarrassingly obvious that he hasn't any. I mean, don't you find it just a tad naive and simplistic - even borderline retardation - to assert that all of the problems emanating from the islamic world are the result of the nefarious influence of the jews in US foreign policy and that everything would be hunkey dorey and A-OK if only those pesky ashkenazim in Palestine would just pack up their little valices and go back to Europe where they came from?

oh wait ... you believe that too, don't you?

Then maybe you'd care to explain why you can't seem to replicate those feats here. Maybe you'd better go back to hand-sifting your own shit.


I'm not here in your moribund forum for your amusement, little boy, I'm here for mine.
 
HEY! TJHairyBallBag!

Hey HairyBallBag!

Have you come up with any more of these fabled "rights" that I have as a straight white man that mud people and perverts are oppressively denied?

So far you've come up with faggot marriage and cunts in combat.

Where and what are these other rights you claim these cultural marxist Identity Groups are denied?
 
Messenger said:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13048821/


With an interesting summation from WHR:


This is the same position the US has had all along. Everything starts with Iran ceasing nuclear enrichment of reactor fuel rods. In return, the US offers nothing, least of all agreements NOT to invade.

Bear in mind that both the US and Iran have signed the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty, under which Iran is allowed to have nuclear reactors for power generation, and the right to make the fuel for their reactors. In demanding that Iran cease such activities, George Bush is in violation of the treaty terms, which means he is also violating the US Constitution's requirement that treaties are the highest law of the land.

In this issue, Bush is legally wrong, and Iran is legally right. But in the end, this is not about Iran's nuclear power stations. Thus is about the Neocons searching for any flimsy excuse to invade Iran, just as they used flimsy (indeed fraudulent) excuses to invade Iraq, and just as they will eventually use flimsy excuses to invade Saudi Arabia.
Oh yeah, and they're filthy, wild animals who are all secretly plotting to kill or convert everyone. A billion of them.
 
A couple of things to straighten this whole mess out!

Gurk... unfortunately, the only people capable of your level of intellectual debate happen to be on your side! To bad for those against!

#1. If your a good muslim you should be KILLING the infidel. Yes Mudslimes have had almost semi-peaceful civilizations full of biases and anti-liberal (ha ha) dogma at one time or another. But that is when they are being BAD muslims. It is a hell worthy tresspass for a muslim to socially engage a non muslim as an equal.

#2. Their religion preaches death. Just because most of the people in the world do not like bloodshed means nothing! They like most other people in other religions are TO FUCKING WEAK or COWARDLY to follow their religion!

#3. What peace has the Religion of Islam brought anyone? Women in burkas, and men forced to wear a beard? Where your Imams dictate your religion to you? Where you nation is ruled as a theocracy?

The only reason you liberal fucks like the mudslimes is because!!!

The enemy of my enemy is my friend! Since the Mudslimes are foes of Christianity... YOU LOVE THEM!

Put your damn brain to rest in a chair Messenger! Your getting your ass kicked by Gurk something nasty!
 
Gurk_MacGuintey said:
I mean, don't you find it just a tad naive and simplistic - even borderline retardation - to assert that all of the problems emanating from the islamic world are the result of the nefarious influence of the jews in US foreign policy and that everything would be hunkey dorey and A-OK if only those pesky ashkenazim in Palestine would just pack up their little valices and go back to Europe where they came from?

No, I don't think it's naive, nor do I think it's simplistic. I do, however, think it's simple, and there is a difference. How many terrorist attacks were directed at American assets abroad or here on our own soil before the U.S. started supplying Israel with billions of dollars a year and advanced military hardware?

Now the security of American assets abroad doesn't constitute the whole of "problems emanating from the Islamic world", but it does constitute the whole of problems that should be of greatest concern to American citizens.

Israel fucks with its neighbors since almost the beginning of its existence as a recognized nation, thus the majority of Arabs hate Israel. The U.S. steps up and starts giving Israel money and military assets to continue to do that with, so now the majority of Arabs hate us, as well. That's not simplistic -- it's just not conveniently overcomplicated enough to lend itself to being all fogged up.

"Ehhhh, we don't really know why the terrorists hate us! It must be because of our decadent freedom-loving ways!"

Bullshit. We had perfectly fine relations with the Muslim world, despite our decadent ways, up until the latter half of the 20th century. Our infidel-ness didn't bother them. Our democracy didn't bother them. Our funding that kosher Pocket Reich bothered them.
 
The Question said:
No, I don't think it's naive, nor do I think it's simplistic. I do, however, think it's simple, and there is a difference. How many terrorist attacks were directed at American assets abroad or here on our own soil before the U.S. started supplying Israel with billions of dollars a year and advanced military hardware?

Now the security of American assets abroad doesn't constitute the whole of "problems emanating from the Islamic world", but it does constitute the whole of problems that should be of greatest concern to American citizens.

Israel fucks with its neighbors since almost the beginning of its existence as a recognized nation, thus the majority of Arabs hate Israel. The U.S. steps up and starts giving Israel money and military assets to continue to do that with, so now the majority of Arabs hate us, as well. That's not simplistic -- it's just not conveniently overcomplicated enough to lend itself to being all fogged up.

"Ehhhh, we don't really know why the terrorists hate us! It must be because of our decadent freedom-loving ways!"

Bullshit. We had perfectly fine relations with the Muslim world, despite our decadent ways, up until the latter half of the 20th century. Our infidel-ness didn't bother them. Our democracy didn't bother them. Our funding that kosher Pocket Reich bothered them.


Based on your post, you obviously didnt get a good dose of History did you? Muslims are never "OK" with anyone but those of their same sects. They even fight differing sects.

Just because the mudslimes were not actively blowing up the US for a time... does not mean they were FINE with us. Yes there have been historical times when the mudslimes did allow those of OTHER faiths live. They were considered 2nd class citizens at best! I thought you liberal pukes didnt like that sort of thing? I thought you were all for equality and shit? And why is it that you freaks want to help out everyone but a jew or white guy? Biased, Racist? I bet you are!

Of course the mudslimes realy couldnt do too much to us for a good long time... maybe you forgot some geography as well... but there was this huge ass fucking expanse of water between us. You should check to see if its still there!

get your damn head out of the dirt!
 
Astral said:
Based on your post, you obviously didnt get a good dose of History did you?

You have no idea who you're talking to, Junior. But if you want to embarrass yourself like so many others have before you, well... who am I to deny you your pain?

Just because the mudslimes were not actively blowing up the US for a time... does not mean they were FINE with us.

"For a time"? Try... oh... never before the late 1960s? The only thing that came close was when the Israelis blew up American and British shit trying to make us think it was Arabs. You have heard of the Lavon Affair, right?

Yes there have been historical times when the mudslimes did allow those of OTHER faiths live. They were considered 2nd class citizens at best!

Funny, the Israelis started doing exactly the same shit to the Palestinians, which is the casus belli for suicide bombers.

I thought you liberal pukes didnt like that sort of thing? I thought you were all for equality and shit? And why is it that you freaks want to help out everyone but a jew or white guy?

Where the hell do you get the idea that I'm a liberal? Personally, I'm of the opinion that we need to stop funding all regimes in the region, including Israel. Not only haven't they done a fucking thing to make them worth the over $1.6 TRILLION our government has just given away to them, they've attacked Americans themselves on multiple occasions. Fuck the whole region.


What kind of sick, warped piece of shit wouldn't care more about his own community, especially when its safety is jeopardized by the actions of a community of strangers thousands of miles away? Everybody is biased -- suck it if you don't like mine.

Racist? I bet you are!

And I bet you think I care!
 
The immediate cause of the First Crusade was Alexius I's appeal to Pope Urban II for mercenaries to help him resist Muslim advances into territory of the Byzantine Empire. In 1071, at the Battle of Manzikert, the Byzantine Empire had been defeated, and this defeat led to the loss of all but the coastlands of Asia Minor (modern Turkey). Although the East-West Schism was brewing between the Catholic Western church and the Greek Orthodox Eastern church, Alexius I expected some help from a fellow Christian. However, the response was much larger, and less helpful, than Alexius I desired, as the Pope called for a large invasion force to not merely defend the Byzantine Empire but also retake Jerusalem.

Yeah, that's got a lot to do with the current situation. You're a fucking moron. Stop now while you have a chance to live this down.
 
The Question said:
Yeah, that's got a lot to do with the current situation. You're a fucking moron. Stop now while you have a chance to live this down.


I love it... I will give you kuddos for knowing a little bit... you obviously dont believe it!

Did you notice the part about RETAKE jerusalem? I guess that kinda defeats the validity behind your complaint about the reason pals bomb the israelies.

You cut and pasted thats great but you still dont know. Let me spell it out for you!

If the origional owners of Jerusalem are the Jews then the pal land squatters have NO FUCKING CLAIMS TO THE PLACE. Further more if they dont like the rules they can fucking LEAVE! If you think the invasion of iraq is wrong and our medaling with Iran and its affairs then your a fuck twating hypocrit! Why should we leave them alone yet you still want to stick your fucking nose in on Israels affairs?

I wonder if you know where the Palestine name comes from as well? I am sure you will cut and paste again. Cause if you really knew history and the Crusades you would not have the stance you have now!

Quit now or suffer more humiliation!

I thought you knew history? A cut and paste may be correct but is oppositional to your stance!
 
The Question said:
No, I don't think it's naive, nor do I think it's simplistic. I do, however, think it's simple, and there is a difference. How many terrorist attacks were directed at American assets abroad or here on our own soil before the U.S. started supplying Israel with billions of dollars a year and advanced military hardware?

Now the security of American assets abroad doesn't constitute the whole of "problems emanating from the Islamic world", but it does constitute the whole of problems that should be of greatest concern to American citizens.

Israel fucks with its neighbors since almost the beginning of its existence as a recognized nation, thus the majority of Arabs hate Israel. The U.S. steps up and starts giving Israel money and military assets to continue to do that with, so now the majority of Arabs hate us, as well. That's not simplistic -- it's just not conveniently overcomplicated enough to lend itself to being all fogged up.

"Ehhhh, we don't really know why the terrorists hate us! It must be because of our decadent freedom-loving ways!"

Bullshit. We had perfectly fine relations with the Muslim world, despite our decadent ways, up until the latter half of the 20th century. Our infidel-ness didn't bother them. Our democracy didn't bother them. Our funding that kosher Pocket Reich bothered them.

Spoken like a true Buchananite! Did you vote for Buchanan in 2000? I did. You know, Question, I used to question Israel’s “Amen Corner†in our Congress. I used to question the inordinated influence of AIPAC. I used to wonder how and why so many jews seemed to be in positions of power and influence in government, media and academia. Still do to a certain extent ... then, after 9/11, I had an epiphany. I resumed my intensive studies of Islam that I had begun way back in 1979 during the ‘Hostage crisis’ in Iran - and I came to the realization that the problem wasn’t jews, the problem wasn’t US policy, the problem wasn’t the lingering effects of Western Colonialism. The problem is Islam itself.

Islam is NOT a ‘religion’. Islam is an ideology. A fascist, totalitarian ideology designed to control vast populations. An ideology that is anti-thetical to every ideal upon which our western civilization is based and is wholly incompatible with our modern notions of liberalism and freedom.

Now, take your blinders off and set Israel and the jews aside for a bit and look at the entire situation across the world .... Algeria, Nigeria, Sudan, Eritria, Bosnia, Kosovo, Chechnya, Kasmir, Nepal, Myanmar, Thailand, Indonesia, Malaysia, East Timor, the Phillipines - conflict after conflict after conflict that involve muslims trying to kill or convert their non-muslim neighbors or their muslim neighbors that are not considered muslim enough.

What do any of the above violent conflicts have to do with Israel, jews or US policy?

As for the Crusades, Astral's point is that too often we in the west are given the Crusades as an example of Western agression and perfidy by mudslime apologists and leftist vermin. Too often we are told that the Crusades were wars of evil christians falling upon the 'peaceful' muslims out-of-the-blue. The fatcs that seem to always be missing from the thumbnail sketches of the Crusades we always get from the leftist media and Hollywood is that the crusades were a REACTION to the previous 500 years of genocidal muslim agression and expansion.

You do realize, don't you, that between 632 ad and 750 ad the muslim scum were directly responsible for history's single largest example of genocide? Between those years at least 8 and as many as 11 entire languages were rendered extinct by muslim violence. The people who spoke these languages did not take Arabic-as-a-second-language courses at their local community colleges - the men were all slaughtered and the women and children were all raped and sold into slavery.

Of course, you wouldn't hear this from any leftist history professor or media commentator - but the facts are there for any who take the time to look.
 
Gurk_MacGuintey said:
Spoken like a true Buchananite! Did you vote for Buchanan in 2000? I did. You know, Question, I used to question Israel’s “Amen Corner†in our Congress. I used to question the inordinated influence of AIPAC. I used to wonder how and why so many jews seemed to be in positions of power and influence in government, media and academia. Still do to a certain extent ... then, after 9/11, I had an epiphany. I resumed my intensive studies of Islam that I had begun way back in 1979 during the ‘Hostage crisis’ in Iran - and I came to the realization that the problem wasn’t jews, the problem wasn’t US policy, the problem wasn’t the lingering effects of Western Colonialism. The problem is Islam itself.

Islam is NOT a ‘religion’. Islam is an ideology. A fascist, totalitarian ideology designed to control vast populations. An ideology that is anti-thetical to every ideal upon which our western civilization is based and is wholly incompatible with our modern notions of liberalism and freedom.

Now, take your blinders off and set Israel and the jews aside for a bit and look at the entire situation across the world .... Algeria, Nigeria, Sudan, Eritria, Bosnia, Kosovo, Chechnya, Kasmir, Nepal, Myanmar, Thailand, Indonesia, Malaysia, East Timor, the Phillipines - conflict after conflict after conflict that involve muslims trying to kill or convert their non-muslim neighbors or their muslim neighbors that are not considered muslim enough.

What do any of the above violent conflicts have to do with Israel, jews or US policy?

As for the Crusades, Astral's point is that too often we in the west are given the Crusades as an example of Western agression and perfidy by mudslime apologists and leftist vermin. Too often we are told that the Crusades were wars of evil christians falling upon the 'peaceful' muslims out-of-the-blue. The fatcs that seem to always be missing from the thumbnail sketches of the Crusades we always get from the leftist media and Hollywood is that the crusades were a REACTION to the previous 500 years of genocidal muslim agression and expansion.

You do realize, don't you, that between 632 ad and 750 ad the muslim scum were directly responsible for history's single largest example of genocide? Between those years at least 8 and as many as 11 entire languages were rendered extinct by muslim violence. The people who spoke these languages did not take Arabic-as-a-second-language courses at their local community colleges - the men were all slaughtered and the women and children were all raped and sold into slavery.

Of course, you wouldn't hear this from any leftist history professor or media commentator - but the facts are there for any who take the time to look.

O man... you took my damn cake away Gurk!!! I was building up to it to insult that little bastard in a grand stand and now you beat me to the punch!!!!

Fuck it all!
 
Astral said:
I love it... I will give you kuddos for knowing a little bit... you obviously dont believe it!

Did you notice the part about RETAKE jerusalem? I guess that kinda defeats the validity behind your complaint about the reason pals bomb the israelies.

No, it really doesn't. Israel didn't exist as a state until 1948, which means the Israelis then living there had no claim to "retake" anything.

You cut and pasted thats great but you still dont know. Let me spell it out for you!

Oh, go ahead and try.

If the origional owners of Jerusalem are the Jews

They're not, but go ahead.

then the pal land squatters have NO FUCKING CLAIMS TO THE PLACE.

Is that kind of the same thinking that would justify whites bombing the living fuck out of every non-white family in the U.S.? The fact is, the Jews who settled in (what became) Israel had that land given to them by Britain. It wasn't Britain's to give away, but they gave it to them in exchange for having pulled strings that got the U.S. involved in World Wars 1 and 2 despite the fact that the American public was almost universally against involvement in both wars to begin with.

Further more if they dont like the rules they can fucking LEAVE!

Really! So if I come over to your place and start fucking with you, will it work the same way? I'll bust down your door and start fucking with you, and if you don't like it, then you can just get out. Right?

If you think the invasion of iraq is wrong and our medaling with Iran and its affairs then your a fuck twating hypocrit!

I think Iraq was never a fucking problem we should've had to deal with. It was not. Our. Problem.

Why should we leave them alone yet you still want to stick your fucking nose in on Israels affairs?

Because the U.S. is bankrolling Israel, that's why. If we were practically the only thing keeping Iran solvent, I'd feel the same way about Iran, too.

I wonder if you know where the Palestine name comes from as well? I am sure you will cut and paste again. Cause if you really knew history and the Crusades you would not have the stance you have now!

Right, well why don't you spew some ludicrous shit containing details -- rather than just claims -- and we'll find out how superior your own knowledge is, then.
 
Gurk_MacGuintey said:

I'm not saying Islam isn't an ideology for psychopaths -- what I'm saying is that Zionism is merely another ideology for psychopaths that's brought Islam down on the U.S. while gaining us absolutely nothing. It's the Zionist policies of our government that's got the Jihadists blowing up American shit, because it made us one of their targets.
 
The Question said:
No, it really doesn't. Israel didn't exist as a state until 1948, which means the Israelis then living there had no claim to "retake" anything.

That is only by your interpretations. What makes a state a state? Your recocginition of it? I didnt realize you are the authority one what a state is! They were a state there before they were busted up by the romans!

The Question said:
They're not, but go ahead.

That comment was concerning the issue between the Mudslimes and the Jews. Concerning both of them that statement is completely correct!

The Question said:
Is that kind of the same thinking that would justify whites bombing the living fuck out of every non-white family in the U.S.? The fact is, the Jews who settled in (what became) Israel had that land given to them by Britain. It wasn't Britain's to give away, but they gave it to them in exchange for having pulled strings that got the U.S. involved in World Wars 1 and 2 despite the fact that the American public was almost universally against involvement in both wars to begin with.

Are you not happy that the White Christians instead actually valued peace enough to let fucks like you exist in the first place? Of course the US was against the World Wars! We noticed the rest of those fucks in the entire eastern hemisphere didnt give a shit about peace! Why should we intervene in a grand slaughter of most of our enemies?

"Art of War" does not run thick in your intellectual brewings does it?

The Question said:
Really! So if I come over to your place and start fucking with you, will it work the same way? I'll bust down your door and start fucking with you, and if you don't like it, then you can just get out. Right?

Your not the governing authority are you? Come on over and see what I have for you! Will you have a bitch fest on capitol hill if I got my home invaded by police for ploting to over throw the gubermint? I bet you would only laugh and click your TV off and go to bed. Your nothing but a hypocrit!

The Question said:
I think Iraq was never a fucking problem we should've had to deal with. It was not. Our. Problem.

And yet you think to put your fucking nose in Israels problems concerning dirt bag mussies? Hypocrisy anyone?

The Question said:
Because the U.S. is bankrolling Israel, that's why. If we were practically the only thing keeping Iran solvent, I'd feel the same way about Iran, too.

And this is still your fucking business? We bankroll everywhere we can. Oh wait? dont tell me your for forcing businesses to behave to a moral code you believe should be enforced? I thought you guys were for moral freedom and shit? Why should you be free but the businesses should not? More hypocrisy... you are just taking a slice of that cake every chance you get!

The Question said:
Right, well why don't you spew some ludicrous shit containing details -- rather than just claims -- and we'll find out how superior your own knowledge is, then.

To the stupid, sanity is ludicrous!
 
The Question said:
I'm not saying Islam isn't an ideology for psychopaths -- what I'm saying is that Zionism is merely another ideology for psychopaths that's brought Islam down on the U.S. while gaining us absolutely nothing. It's the Zionist policies of our government that's got the Jihadists blowing up American shit, because it made us one of their targets.


And what would you say about your secular views? If it pissed us Christians off enought to say... have a spritual cleansing of the US of A? If bet your fucking toon would change in a heart beat!

Why is it our fucking fault for doing what we do? We did not tell them to come and bomb our ships, buildings, and citizens!

Dont forget... Zionism is responsible for the most Good ever done in this world! We feed the sick, we stop wars, we help people, we do far more than any other creedo, religion, or nation on this planet to benefit the whole world!

And just so you know... our off shoots from Judaism made us a target bitch! Its only recent that we are being attacked because US is still a young nation and there was not a lot of opportunity for mussies to fuck with us until recent technology! Dont confuse their inability to fuck with us as a desire to have peace... your a fucking moron for believing it!

Admit it you hold Christians to a different standard than anyone else! But this is not surprising!
 
Astral said:
That is only by your interpretations. What makes a state a state? Your recocginition of it?

No, first British recognition and then U.N. recognition.

I didnt realize you are the authority one what a state is! They were a state there before they were busted up by the romans!

And then they weren't, after they were busted up by the Romans.

That comment was concerning the issue between the Mudslimes and the Jews. Concerning both of them that statement is completely correct!

Not even if you say so.

Are you not happy that the White Christians instead actually valued peace enough to let fucks like you exist in the first place? Of course the US was against the World Wars! We noticed the rest of those fucks in the entire eastern hemisphere didnt give a shit about peace! Why should we intervene in a grand slaughter of most of our enemies?

Then why did we? We were duped.

"Art of War" does not run thick in your intellectual brewings does it?

It does, in fact, along with the Go Rin No Sho. Would you like to try to make a point?

Your not the governing authority are you? Come on over and see what I have for you! Will you have a bitch fest on capitol hill if I got my home invaded by police for ploting to over throw the gubermint? I bet you would only laugh and click your TV off and go to bed. Your nothing but a hypocrit!

Oh, let's see now who's a hypocrite -- you think it's okay for Israel to invade its neighbors, seize their territory and abuse the fuck out of their citizens -- on the idea that if those citizens don't like it, they can "just fucking leave." Right? But when faced with a hypothetical situation where you're on the receiving end of that kind of deal, suddenly "just fucking leave" isn't your answer anymore.

And yet you think to put your fucking nose in Israels problems concerning dirt bag mussies? Hypocrisy anyone?

That's not hypocrisy. Maybe you should go ask your mommy what that word actually means before you use it around grownups.

And this is still your fucking business? We bankroll everywhere we can.

And does that mean we should? Look what it's getting us.

Oh wait? dont tell me your for forcing businesses to behave to a moral code you believe should be enforced? I thought you guys were for moral freedom and shit? Why should you be free but the businesses should not?

WTF do businesses have to do with this?

To the stupid, sanity is ludicrous!

Show me some sanity and let's find out.
 
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