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Cait Suspended from EI

Enkephalen said:
Well Spidey, all we as individuals can do is try to live our lives to the best of our abilities, with integrity and honesty. Not everyone has the stamina to hold fast to their ideals and follow their moral compass, kind of like Cap'n Jack Sparrow's compass that pointed toward where his heart's desire lay. All we can do is our personal best, and leave others to theirs. That they fail is part of their karmic path. I know I don't always live up to the quote below, but I try. It's a hold over from those ancient days when my most fervent (or fevered) dream was to become a Benedictine Nun:

"Be a person of integrity. Cling to righteousness with such tenacity of purpose that neither the passions of the mob nor the violence of the tyrant can ever cause you to transgress the bounds of right. But who can be such a phoenix of equity? What a scanty following rectitude has! Many praise it indeed, but few devote themselves. Others follow it until danger threatens; then the false deny it and the political conceal it. For righteousness cares not if it
conflicts with friendship, power, or even self-interest; then comes the danger of desertion. Astute people make plausible distinctions so as not to stand in the way of their superiors or of reason of state. But straightforward and
constant people regard deception as a kind of treason and set more store in tenacity than on sagacity. Such people are always to be found on the side of truth, and if they desert a group they do not change due to fickleness but
because the others have first deserted truth."

Balthasar Gracian
The Art of Worldly Wisdom
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I really like you Enkephalen. You rock! :) Thanks.
 
Caitriona said:
Chipper do you honesty think that what a members says off board and what a moderator says offboard is the same thing?

Do you honestly think that given EI/SS's history that a moderator should be making inflammatory remarks about any members publicly?

If you do, then you don't get it at all.
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No, don't worry, I don't think that. I think that there is a big difference, and I tried to make that clear (it may not have come across). I hold the staff to a higher standard - they have to be. I think I made it clear here in a later post:

It's not disallowed, but how should we look at it? Should we accept the fact that there are public comments by a moderator - someone we are holding to a higher standard than others on this board - against members, which could factor into that moderator's actions on the board itself? Where do we separate the offboard stuff to the actions here? Hurt feelings abound.
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What I was trying to do was find a way to work such a situation into our guidelines. I read the entry before it was hidden, so I know what was going on, and my desire is to see some action taken on Shal's side as well. It's not fair to you, or anyone else that was insultd. It's exactly what was going on with the SL at Slipstream and it's not fair. I refrained from brining that comparison up there since its a touchy subject, but it's so close. I was trying to defend Shal in the area of the guidelines and how they should be considered, but don't you worry, I am on your side. You didn't deserve what was said.

Nothing will happen to Shal and I'll be vilified, but you now what, that is fine by me. If you continue to allow this kind of this, you bring an era of such hostility to your community, and you won't be able to contian it because it isn't trolling it is genuine hatred. Every time she vents publicly another person will hate her. You think that doesn't spill out onto the board? I'm here to tell you it does--loudly and aggressively. This situation breeds hostility. If you can't see it, then live with the consequences. It makes no difference to me any longer.

So enjoy EI while you can. Her big mouth may be EI guideline protected, but you can't stop us for being hostile to the woman. She's earned that hostility the same way I earned my suspension.

She's a bad mod.

So, you live by your stupid rules, and you'll crash and burn as members get flamed and come to mistrust the staff. Welcome to your nightmare and embrace your guidelines. It's all you'll have in the end.
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Ok, I'm trying to figure out whether or not you are talking to me or EI as a whole, because I think you know me better. I'm not happy with this -- hell, not even Gigi is happy with it. And it should be changed. And I was trying to get that across in my posts. Maybe I shoudln't drink so much ;), but the thought was there. It breeds mistrust and problems, and repeats of the past. And it's only gonna be rampid and people need to see why. That's what I think is the problem. Those who post constantly without thinking are missing the point of why you and others are arguing so vehemently against the staff's actions, whether or not I think either side is right or wrong. It's ruining things. I think that Cheile's posts are just asinine because it's just a rant against you, I don't know why. Even if she had a good point, it's lost.

ETA: and Shal has responded to the comments in thread.
 
^ Actually, I was talking to you, but not about you, if that makes any sense. I appreciate how well you have articulated the issue both here and on EI.

I agree completely BTW, in the end all it does is breed mistrust and hostility. That's why it is so destructive to the community.

She said it.

I read it.

I couldn't find a way to resolve it or get anyone to listen, and that turned into hostility. Which I brought to the board. That's the danger.

I find I can't trust staff and this particular mod in particular. Not so much for what she said to me, but because she made it a practice to use her journal that way. I was just as upset about the comments about G, and in fact those comments made me soften towards G entirely. I began to read his posts without reading all the anger I used to find into them, and I found suddenly that while he can be a direct cuss, he is really just a regular guy. I don't want to see him banned.

Anyway I brought that frustration and hostility to the board with still no way to deal with it.

Now multiply that for each member a mod might slam. Even if the ranting is justified, it's just so bad for the community. The mod is not trusted and then can't effectively do their job. The member is angry and it shows, thereby making other members angry at the member's "attitude" and no one can know why because of a rule.

It makes no sense.

And ultimately it is just bad for the board.
 
Chipper said:
It's exactly what was going on with the SL at Slipstream and it's not fair. I refrained from brining that comparison up there since its a touchy subject, but it's so close.
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You know what is strange. It felt like it too. I mean it felt exaclty the same. Just feeling that way took me back to SS. It was a really bad case of deja vu.
 
Caitriona said:
I agree completely BTW, in the end all it does is breed mistrust and hostility. That's why it is so destructive to the community.

She said it.

I read it.

I couldn't find a way to resolve it or get anyone to listen, and that turned into hostility. Which I brought to the board. That's the danger.

I find I can't trust staff and this particular mod in particular. Not so much for what she said to me, but because she made it a practice to use her journal that way. I was just as upset about the comments about G, and in fact those comments made me soften towards G entirely. I began to read his posts without reading all the anger I used to find into them, and I found suddenly that while he can be a direct cuss, he is really just a regular guy. I don't want to see him banned...

...Now multiply that for each member a mod might slam. Even if the ranting is justified, it's just so bad for the community. The mod is not trusted and then can't effectively do their job. The member is angry and it shows, thereby making other members angry at the member's "attitude" and no one can know why because of a rule.

I makes no sense.

And ultimately it is just bad for the board.
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That's it in a nutshell right there. I feel bad for G too. Mostly because I think of him as a friend, and I feel I know him well enough to know what kind of person he is. He was very generous, fun, and friendly in the last two EI gathering's that I had attended in San Diego. He's good natured, just don't get on his bad side. ;) I know he's not exactly popular around here on TK because of what he says (and on EI it seems), but he deserves better.
 
I'm not surprised GiGi agrees--she has been, for a long time, one of the staff and former staff most hurt by the lumping.
 
I was researching my own comments [over on EI] in the old threads regarding mods posting on TK. It was Ro vs. Drew at the time. I remembered I'd posted in it, and I wondered how much my POV might have changed since the 'shoe was on the other foot' so to speak.

We all like to think we remain constant on our opinions, but the truth is experience informs our opinions more than nice theories. I just wondered how big of an apology I was going to have to give to Drew when next I see him.

So I'm wandering through this thread really only looking at my posts, pausing sometimes to read, because the opinions then are pretty much the opinions now. When all of a sudden I stumble across this...


Shal said:
http://www.exisle.net/mb/index.php?s=&showtopic=19629&view=findpost&p=406025

Okay I'm going to post a link here to every thing I have said at TK...includeing a public appology to Drew for calling his upset a Martyr Complex. I should have qualified it as a frustrated opinion.

Shal's Live Journal

There is nothing there that I have not said here, save for some curse words, and maybe a bit more diplomatic wording.
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Seems she did not learn to be more tactful or more discreet at all. Seems she did not understand the problems then, any more than she does now. Makes you wonder, don't it?

And I see there was another public apology to Drew. I guess it was worth as much as the one to me. I hope the next person is able to believe her, because I don't any more.

Oh, and I sent an apology off to Drew. He comes around here every now and then.
 
I'm not being paranoid, but now I can't help but wonder what else Shal said in her journal that is not open to the eyes of the public? Has she said anything about other members like myself? Does she do it often? I'm not on her friends list, so I guess I'm not worthy. I'm fine with that. At least now I know where I stand.
 
A Karas said:
I'm not being paranoid, but now I can't help but wonder what else Shal said in her journal that is not open to the eyes of the public? Has she said anything about other members like myself? Does she do it often? I'm not on her friends list, so I guess I'm not worthy. I'm fine with that. At least now I know where I stand.
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I wondered the same thing. So I looked.

It's hard to tell whether or not all the posts were always "Friend Protected" or whether they might have been public at one time. Almost all of her entries regarding EI are in fact *now* Friend Protected.

I admit once I came across the one post of her's in the above link, [like a train wreck] I couldn't help but go look. From the time when she apologized to Drew for comments she made on TK and comments and copying those comments to her journal, she has continued to bash members.

Sometimes by name, and sometimes she just takes a direct quote from a post of whoever she had chosen to rail on about. Sometimes she XXXX'ed out the name. Although I admit, I'm not sure if the XXXX's were recent measures to correct the problem. [Once I looked I also found more entries about me.. and I'd have to look, but some of the quotes seemed to be mine as well.]

In fairness they were Friend Protected. But I'll repeat, there are no less than 8 former staff members and current staff members on that Friend's List and they all must have seen at least a few of them over the years.--if not all of them. Enough to detect that there was no discernable change in her lj posting habits from the time of the apology to Drew.

The journal took no observable turn in how she talked about members. I quit looking when I got back to the comments about Drew. I can only imagine that there are indeed more in the same vein.

And before anyone tells me I should not be looking because it is her private thoughts, don't bother. That's like saying you should turn your back once you find out someone has been stealing from people all along, after you just caught him/her stealing from you. I'm passionate and dramatic, I'm not stupid.

I found the original comments, because on lj you do not have to visit a person's journal to read it. You click on your friends list and all the recent entries of people on your list are on one page. I clicked to read my friends entries back in early May 2006, and hers was of course on the page. I did not go scouring her journal like some paranoid idiot.

Did I just go look to past entries? You bet I did. I wanted to know if she had actually meant her apology to Drew. I wanted to know if she was sincere at all, or only had issues with me personally. I wanted to know if her apology to me meant anything.

I think that is an important distinction. If she only had issues with me, then I suppose there could be an argument that we needed to settle it off EI. If she has issues with a lot of members and can't refrain from using her journal as a sounding board, then that is an EI issue.

I guess it wasn't that personal to me specifically and I was just the whistle blower.

Since we can't know for certain that these entries weren't always friend protected, we can't accuse her of making them public.

But what we can know is that Staff knew she was doing it, because they are on her Friend's list. Even if they didn't all read every entry, most read at least a few over the years. Staff knew and allowed it to continue to the present day. No one took her aside and said, "hey, this could explode on the board and remember what happened last time?! Please, when you need to vent make it a private entry." Instead they made a rule that no one can ever bring it to EI, but the moderator is still allowed to troll members.

Public and Friend's only entires, invite comments. So in some of the entires others voiced an opinion. That's more than venting. That is having a conversation about EI members. That can only lead to hostility on the board. Which is exaclty the result we see now.

In short they found a way around the WD's, and the new OQ is Shal's journal.
 
Tamar_Garish said:
What amazes me is how many can't see why this is a problem.
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Me too. And what is even worse IMO is that there is a whole history of this very problem not only on SS, but on EI.

It's a matter of turst and respect, and how this kind of thing breeds a hostility that is palpable within the community.
 
You have no idea. Some of the worst ones *are* still public, and they are not about me. They go back all the way to 2003.

I won't believe she was ever sorry. I am also not happy with those that posted in some of the entries to lend their voices.

I'm sorry she is sick, and I wish her every bit of good health she can find. I know she has had a hard time.

But I won't believe she hasn't made her journal a place where she can trash members, and yes publicly and privately to friends. Friends who are on staff.
 
Caitriona said:
You have no idea. Some of the worst ones *are* still public, and they are not about me. They go back all the way to 2003.
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I don't want to see any of it.

I'm sorry she is sick, and I wish her every bit of good health she can find. I know she has had a hard time.
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I'm sorry she is sick too. I also wish her good health and happiness.

But I won't believe she hasn't made her journal a place where she can trash members, and yes publicly and privately to friends. Friends who are on staff.
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Same here.
 
Yeah...

It's exactly the situation that was the old Slipstream. The betrayal I felt upon the release of the OQ was palpable. I knew quite alot of those staff members were scumbags, but it's the ones I considered friends that said NOTHING while all this was going on behind my back that really got to me.

The watchdogs were implemented to keep this kind of thing from happening on EI...

Well when those same WD's won't say that what Shal wrote in her lj was wrong, how much confidence do you really have in the job they're doing? It's not that far removed and it's completely inappropriate. If you can't truly be the person that you're expected to be on EI, even away from the board you really don't deserve your position.

That's one of a multitude of reasons I could never be a mod over at EI. :P

A watchdog however... That position was not only made by me, but it was made for me...

Ah well... next time. :P
 
Being tech admin for SSU was fun, until I had to resign after changing Imperiums user title to "I am a twat"
 
LOL...

Did I miss that episode?

I don't recall it. It's something along the lines of amusing to me now though. Surely not a good enough reason to resign.

Seems like harmless fun to me. ;)
 
Me too, but the other admins were rather straight laces, plus they never let me get involved with any desicion making.

At least i didnt fuck em over on the way out, or deadmin everyone but me.
 
LOL, then you were one of the few that didn't fuck shit up on the way out of SSU...

Damned sorry I missed it, I'd have been on your side.
 
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