Clarify for me....

[Number_6]

BDM, this is the second time you've brought this up, so you must really want it addressed. I will oblige.

Sexual orientation isn't specifically a male or female trait. No one has ever said that either gender is predisposed to homosexuality due to gender specific brain chemistry. It's not a gender specific trait that predisposes one towards sexual orientation, it's a human specific trait.

What of the correlation between the size of the hypothalamus and sexual orientation in males?

 

[Friday]

What of the correlation between the size of the hypothalamus and sexual orientation in males?

Hmm...

I've read Levay's study, and he concludes that the hypothalamus is larger in heterosexual males, than in homosexual males.

However, I've been hard pressed to find a similar study for lesbians. It could be that the hypothalamus has a similar effect in women, thereby invalidating the gender specific conclusion.

I shall continue looking.

 

[WordInterrupted]

I wasn't proposing to prove anything

As usual.

 

[Big Dick McGee]

For the record, I happen to agree that gay men and women are born that way. As are transgendered people. However, it would logically follow that not only are men's brains wired differently than women's, but some men's brains are wired differently than other men. Gay men aren't simply "men with women's brains". This negates the role of nuture in terms of sexual orientation.

If sexual orientation is "hard-wired" into us, then men's and women's brains must be inherently different. Perhaps gender roles are learned through nuture, but gender is not.

 

[Number_6]

This is why the article Friday was initially arguing against is so informative, because it is actually arguing for many shades of gray at the same time that it argues that there are, indeed, "masculine" and "feminine" brain types.

If we could get the political extremes to back away from their usual reaction to scientific fact--which is to accept it if it has positive political implications for their group and to reject it if it doesn't--we might actually have a better idea of how the human mind works.

 

[TJHairball]

I thought the PC propaganda was that women are supposed to be smarter than men. Seeing as that line of BS has been in circulation for at least a few decades now, I would imagine boys would expect their prom dates to be smarter than they are. :?

There's an interesting point to be made about why male lead characters are idiots half the time.

IIRC, women do have a higher average IQ, but this can be attributed mostly (if not entirely) to the statistically higher incidence of X-chromosome linked forms of mental retardation among males.

AFAIK, however, studies have also shown that men prefer less intelligent women, and it's well established socially that "playing dumb" can help you get male attention. What's not established by the study under question is the link between brain biology and scientific talent... while we have a number of fairly well studied reasons pointing to how the social environment inhibits women going into the sciences.

I would not be surprised to find that there are areas where the "male brain" or "female brain" as described by the study perform better, in which case (by what I mentioned earlier) we might see some noticable disparities of up to 2:1 or so based on that study. But 9:1? You need other effects to account for that.

Especially when studies show similar gaps in results in the modern day and age disappearing when educational techniques are improved.

 

[Friday]

I did manage to find this sudy:

http://www.cnn.com/HEALTH/9803/02/lesbian.ears/

Scientists at the University of Texas, Austin, say they have found the first strong evidence of a physical difference between lesbians and straight women -- a finding that the inner ears of gay women work more like those of men.

The Texas scientists said they found the inner ears of lesbians have undergone "masculinization," probably from excess exposure to male hormones before birth.

"Their auditory centers have been masculinized and the presumption is that so have the sites in the brain that direct sexual preference," said Dennis McFadden, the lead author of the study.

It has yet to be proven, however, that there is a specific site in the brain that directs women to be lesbians, he said.

Dr. Michael Bailey of Northwestern University said the research is "compelling" and may be "consistent with the biological origin of lesbianism."

"The most likely interpretation," he said, "is that this represents some kind of effect of early hormones on the developing fetus."

This must be why I've been having inner ear problems most of my life...no kidding. Huh...