Dominance and Submission

[Friday]

I've been thinking about this topic lately, in terms of sexuality.

For the first time, I can understand the appeal this lifestyle could have. Sometimes when one allows oneself to become submissive in the bedroom, one finds the courage to take charge of one's life.

Giving up control, to a control freak, could be an extremely freeing, albeit frightening, experience. By having the courage to let go of something once held so dear, one can actually find the strength to grow, as a person.

I don't know, I guess I'm just thinking aloud. Post your thoughts if you have 'em.

 

[Caitriona]

What me??? Have thoughts on D/s? You have to be kidding right?


j/k


I'll wait and see if this discussion takes off before I add my considerably more than 2 cents.

 

[Friday]

Be a trendsetter, Cait. Post you thoughts. I'd really like to know.

I've never allowed a man, or woman, to dominate and control me. Until very recently.

It's a strange, new world for me. One that I think I'd like to delve into further (of course, not with the person who started the ball rolling. That would be...inappropiate.).

 

[Caitriona]

LOL, my thoughts on the topic are way too complicated to put into a few words in a thread on TK that will only end up spammed ot death. I don't mind engaging in a convo, but I just don't have the time or energy to post the meat of a discussion.

D/s is, to many, more than a sexual orientation, but I suppose the easiest way to look at it and understand it is to view it in terms of sexuality. It's a POV for most, and there are no hard and fast rules or definitions for what it entails. You could ask 10 Dom/mes and 10 submissives what it meant to them and you'd get 20 different answers.

Mostly I suppose it is about one partner giving up their power to the Dominant partner. How much power and how far reaching the power is, depends on the players. Just as in any vanilla relationship, it's the partners themselves who define the nature of the interaction.

Why one partner would NEED to give up that power, and why another would NEED to have it, is the stuff of epic novels.

One word of caution D/s [Dominance and submission] is not necessarily S&M [sado-masochism] They are often lumped together, and often do exist in D/s, but not necessarily. Just as some vanilla partners have wild and kinky sex, and some have only 'missionary position' mild sex, so BDSM sees the entire gambit of sexual activity too.

 

[Friday]

D/s is, to many, more than a sexual orientation, but I suppose the easiest way to look at it and understand it is to view it in terms of sexuality. It's a POV for most, and there are no hard and fast rules or definitions for what it entails. You could ask 10 Dom/mes and 10 submissives what it meant to them and you'd get 20 different answers.

Mostly I suppose it is about one partner giving up their power to the Dominant partner. How much power and how far reaching the power is, depends on the players. Just as in any vanilla relationship, it's the partners themselves who define the nature of the interaction.

Why one partner would NEED to give up that power, and why another would NEED to have it, is the stuff of epic novels.

I never thought of the topic as being so layered, before. Thank you for this insight, Cait. As I said, I never thought about it seriously, before. I always saw it as just deviant sexual behavior. However, I'm beginning to understand the reasons, both sexual and intrinsic, for such a choice.

One word of caution D/s [Dominance and submission] is not necessarily S&M [sado-masochism] They are often lumped together, and often do exist in D/s, but not necessarily. Just as some vanilla partners have wild and kinky sex, and some have only 'missionary position' mild sex, so BDSM sees the entire gambit of sexual activity too.

I must admit this was worrisome to me. I am intrigued by D/s, but don't necessarily enjoy giving, or getting, pain. I think I'm viewing the whole thing as an avenue towards personal growth, not necessarily as solely a sexual kink.

What you've said is actually a relief.

 

[Caitriona]

Well, it's not some club you join, with by-laws and an initiation rite. The only thing to fear really is your own inner desires and inhibitions. No one is going to turn you into something you aren't.

D/s is what you make of it. It's most basic premise is a power exchange, one partner gives up control, the other one assumes the responsibility for being in control The one in control does get his/her way for the most part. But, it's a lot more complicated than that, because of course a submissive can always say "Hey screw this", and walk out the door.

There are those that play casually just as there are in RL vanilla relationships. There are those who are more serious about it, and there are those that live it 24/7. No one gets coerced into it, just as no one becomes gay by having a gay friend. It's a lifestyle and a sexual orientation. But, it all has degrees of Dominance and submission, just as anything in life.

Partners communicate and get to know one another just as they do in real life, and some don't take the time at all, just like in real life vanilla relationships. You'll see it all.

Mind you I am talking about D/s exclusively now, not B&D or S&M, which are different in scope and POV.

Just remember, not all submissives are masochists, some are, but not all. In fact, submissives and masochists are really different animals. Submissives have service at the core of their sexuality and masochists have pain/pleasure at the core. A masochist does not necessarily submit when s/he is receiving pain, especially since that's what they want in the first place. S&M can be devoid of power exchange, and only a mutual activity where one gets hot by giving pain, the other by receiving it.

Sometimes a submissive can be both, but even then it will be in varying degrees, and often the endurance of pain isn't about pain/pleasure [although again it Can be], but about pleasing the Dominant/Sadist.

Like I said it is complicated, as complicated as human sexual behavior. The community has been lumped together under the acronym BDSM, but even that is a misnomer. BDSM no longer resembles the leather S&M of the 50's and 60's, it's much more main stream now and has many, many different manifestations.

I'm curious, what about this is so fascinating to you? The sex? The dominance? The service? What?

 

[Morrhigan]

Heavens, yes, there are many layers to the world of BDSM. Because it makes people uncomfortable, it often gets passed off as a joke or treated as nothing but kinky titillation, but there is far more to it than that. It can be a way to explore many sides of the human psyche that are suppressed, and offers potential for great insight. Some people use it (consciously or unconsciously) to work through issues that they don't otherwise know how to confront.

I experimented quite a bit as a submissive, and learned all sorts of things about myself. In the end, I concluded that what I really want isn't to be found there, though some aspects of it will always turn me on. It was quite freeing to realize that I love masochism in and of itself, without the sub/dom aspect. Damn, it's been a long time since I had a good flogging...

But I digress. There are a zillion different types of kink, and every person has their own unique combination of what appeals to them. I've known a lot of subs who weren't into pain. I've known people who have a very specific kink (needle-play, for instance, or dressing up in diapers), and others who enjoy a wide range of things. So try to throw out your notions of what is or isn't okay, and open up to what really appeals to you. It can be quite liberating.

 

[Caitriona]

Damn, it's been a long time since I had a good flogging...

Ahhh, wouldn't a nice endorphin high be nice right now?

So try to throw out your notions of what is or isn't okay, and open up to what really appeals to you. It can be quite liberating.

Oh VERY well said. I couldn't agree more.

 

[Morrhigan]

^Nice? More like exhillarating... fabulous... WHEEEEeeeee! I've really got to re-establish contact with the scene here.

 

[Friday]

I'm curious, what about this is so fascinating to you? The sex? The dominance? The service? What?

You've been very helpful. Thank you, I really do appreciate the time you've taken.

What is so fascinating? I've been in control, at least on the surface, all my life. I've controlled my, and my family's lives. My role was one of making sure everyone's needs were filled. Not to mention being a staunch feminist, no man was going to control me, or my life. I held on to my control so long, and so hard, that it became as natural and necessary to my survival as breathing.

Recently, I've been put in a position of being forced to give up some of that control, kicking and screaming the whole way. I eventually realized this was working for me. Not only was I seeing the world from a different perspective, but I actually enjoyed it. The surface control became a much deeper, more solid control. And this was only accomplished by forfeiting the surface control, by trusting enough to put myself in someone else's hands.

Eventually, these feelings started to translate into the sexual (note my newfound online flirtation). And that's where I am today. Opening some doors which, as a knee jerk response, I tried to lock tight.

 

[Caitriona]

I hear that you have a really nice scene up in your neck of the woods. Here in LA it is all leather and mostly gay groups. We have Threshold here, and it's OK, but we don't have nearly the scene of Chicago, New York and Seattle.

And OK, nice was an understatement.

I remember when I got my last tattoo, it was two hours of outlining. I was high as a kite. He kept asking me if it hurt, and if I was OK... all I did was smile back and roll my eyes, I was so damn high from endorphins. I never felt a thing after a while.

I'll never understand why some people get so bent out of shape when 'we' talk about pain and getting high.. I don't want to be tortured or have cigarettes put on on my arm, but some pain is just oh so NICE!!!! [OK, I did it again, I mean fabulous]

 

[Caitriona]

And this was only accomplished by forfeiting the surface control, by trusting enough to put myself in someone else's hands.

Eventually, these feelings started to translate into the sexual (note my newfound online flirtation). And that's where I am today. Opening some doors which, as a knee jerk response, I tried to lock tight .

I'll be honest, once I began to really explore my own needs and desires, I never looked back. It's liberating to become more of 'who you really are'... The exploration of one's sexual nature is one of the most rewarding in the end, because it is one of the most repressed and culturally influenced.

Good luck and ENJOY your journey!!!!

 

[Friday]

So, Cait and Morrighan, you gals are into pain.

Though I am not judging, I don't understand that. How can something that hurts be sexually pleasurable? Again, not judging...just looking for some edification.

 

[Friday]

I'll be honest, once I began to really explore my own needs and desires, I never looked back. It's liberating to become more of 'who you really are'... The exploration of one's sexual nature is one of the most rewarding in the end, because it is one of the most repressed and culturally influenced.

Good luck and ENJOY your journey!!!!

Thank you. I think I will.

 

[Caitriona]

Actually, no I'm not 'into' pain in quite the way I think you mean. I'm aware of how pain works though; I mean how it works on the physical body. When the body experiences pain, endorphins are pushed into the blood stream, these act as a pain killer, and can give an euphoric feeling. It isn't the pain [at least for me] that is pleasurable, it's the endorphin euphoria that adds to the sexual pleasure I'm also experiencing.

I can't speak for masochists, as I think their need for pain is different from mine, but trust me, a nice endorphin high adds a lot to an orgasm. A good flogging can get me there. Now that's not a flogging that is all about just beating my ass to a bloody pulp, but a slow build to let the endorphins build. It's all about how you do it.

People mistake it for something like just getting beat up, which it certainly isn't. Some pain is just pain and not the good kind. But there are some kinds of pain that if administered right, can be heaven.

But I'd still not categorize myself as 'into' pain. I understand it, I know the bad kind because I've been injured in real life accidents and such. I also know the good kind because I've known some good Dominants who knew how to wield a flogger so that it felt like it was kissing my ass.

Like I said, it's very complicated and you should do as Morrhigan said and throw out everything you ever heard and saw about pain/pleasure and read up on the actual physical results of pain.

Think "Runner's High".


Why do ballet dancers continue to dance when their toes are bleeding from being en pointe? Why do runners continue past all endurance? What makes an athlete do that? Endorphins? Powerful stuff, and not at all about the love of pain for most people. Pain is and can be a tool to use to get to that state of mind.. [the endorphin euphoria].. Course some are into the pain itself, you'd have to ask them for their POV.

 

[Morrhigan]

Cait: yeah, the scene up here is fantastic, and incredibly diverse. I really should take advantage of it more than I do.

Friday: Hey, everybody has a different kink. I dig pain, but it has to be the right kind and in the right setting. Stubbing my toe doesn't turn me on, lol. Have you ever had a really good massage, the kind that digs into your muscles and hurts like hell, but leaves you feeling like you've just had great sex? I think that's the closest I can come to explaining what I like about pain to someone who doesn't feel the same way. The endorphin rush is a real kick in the ass. Plus, for me, there's a certain pride in seeing how much I can take. But it's also something... I don't know... a sort of magic? Pain has energy, and I can transform it in my mind, turn it into a sort of ecstasy.

Oh, and Cait, I know what you mean about tattoos! I got my tat before I got into BDSM, and I remember being high as a kite from the endorphins but not understanding why. Kept giggling, breathing deeply, giggling some more. We did the whole thing in one shot - three hours of outlining, then filling in with color. Wheeeee!

 

[Caitriona]

Cait: yeah, the scene up here is fantastic, and incredibly diverse. I really should take advantage of it more than I do.

You really should. Sadistic Bastard told me the scene up there was really good. Some day, if I ever come up to visit you guys, we can check it out together maybe.

Oh, and Cait, I know what you mean about tattoos! I got my tat before I got into BDSM, and I remember being high as a kite from the endorphins but not understanding why. Kept giggling, breathing deeply, giggling some more. We did the whole thing in one shot - three hours of outlining, then filling in with color. Wheeeee!

Now that's what I'm talking about.. Oh yeah!!!! :bigass:

 

[Friday]

So much information to assimilate.

Let me ingest, then I'll post some more.

 

[Morrhigan]

You really should. Sadistic Bastard told me the scene up there was really good. Some day, if I ever come up to visit you guys, we can check it out together maybe.

That would be fun! We might even get Hambil to tag along. :bigass:

 

[Caitriona]

Yay!!! That would be such fun!!!