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ethnic integration in US cities.

What difference does it matter? I'm all manner of wrong if I say what I see does not match with their "evidence" - a chart they found on the internet that is obviously skewed to support what they say about an area they do not live in, do not do business in, have no interaction with at all.

But, this does show how things happen. I say "I'm being over run by people who refuse to speak English." They say, "Oh, no - can't be. You're a racist and a xenophobe, etc. because I've seen charts on the internet that say that just isn't so." Then, when they are living in a foreign country and they haven't moved they will say, "Help, I'm being over run by people who refuse to speak English." And, I'll say, "Then move out of your home or learn to speak that language, you f'ing smarmy bastard."
 
The Call Of Nature: yes, there is. (German)
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What does that mean, though, having a national language? What good does it do you as a nation? Surely Germany has a diverse population of people that speak various languages. Why not just let it be Spanish like it is here in the US?
 
The Call Of Nature said:
It may matter as far as first languages are concerned. If you are Latino and grew up in the US, then you automatically have 2 first languages (which imo gives you an advantage over most of us).

However, it does not make your arguments more or less convincing in any way whatsoever. That is a matter of character and not of skin colour.
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Actually, just because a person is born in the US does not mean that they speak any English at all. I know that may not be what that chart says, but it is a fact nevertheless.
 
Cassie said:
It seems like the language thing is different along the border because people coming into the country are concentrated there. It probably does seem like they're not bothering to learn English, but I bet most of the adults do know at least some English, and most of the younger people are probably fluent in English. Of course there would most likely be a slightly larger concentration of people who do not speak English there, than in the rest of the country.
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As I posted, that isn't the case. That may be what a selected sampling may show to support someone's agenda, however, that isn't exactly an accurate representation. There are quite a few people who are third and fourth, and even beyond, generation immigrants that do not speak any English at all. I see these people quite often as we have to have interpreters help them fill out their complaint forms, wrong name affidavits, etc. Ten years ago we had one interpreter on staff. Now we have four. I don't know how many are needed in the court rooms but I imagine it is considerably more.
 
eloisel said:
Actually, just because a person is born in the US does not mean that they speak any English at all. I know that may not be what that chart says, but it is a fact nevertheless.
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Sure. 9% of second generation latino immigrants don't speak english either "well" or "very well". That's a really small number, and isn't, in any way, a threat to either the primacy of english in america or to the successful assimilation of those immigrants.

If you have any data backing up that it is, in fact, a significant problem, produce it. And remember, the singular of "data" is not "anecdote".
 
Daystrom said:
We'll see, just answer the question whetto.
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From what I understand Donovan's parent's got in through Texas. He was what they call an anchor baby.

Sorry Donovan. I know you asked me not to divulge PI but this thread was begging for it. Besides, this is called Troll Kingdom right?
 
eloisel said:
Actually, just because a person is born in the US does not mean that they speak any English at all. I know that may not be what that chart says, but it is a fact nevertheless.
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Actullay I can vouch for this. I have two children. Both born in the US. At birth neither of them could speak a single word of english.
 
SAUSAGEMAN said:
Sure. 9% of second generation latino immigrants don't speak english either "well" or "very well". That's a really small number, and isn't, in any way, a threat to either the primacy of english in america or to the successful assimilation of those immigrants.

If you have any data backing up that it is, in fact, a significant problem, produce it. And remember, the singular of "data" is not "anecdote".
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Please describe the primarily English seaking part of the United States in which you live.
 
SAUSAGEMAN said:
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You're welcome! :)

(Also of interest: "Spanish is the language that most foreign-born Hispanic adults (52%) speak
exclusively at home. That proportion drops to 11% among second-generation
adults and 6% among those in the third and higher generations.")
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A 2007 report by your 2002-2006 chart source tells a different tale.
http://azbilingualed.org/NEWS2007/study_Mexican_immigrants_trail_others.htm
 
You just cited Yahoo! Answers and don't understand the difference between "Mexican" and "Hispanic".

(I live in Canada.)
 
SAUSAGEMAN said:
You just cited Yahoo! Answers and don't understand the difference between "Mexican" and "Hispanic".

(I live in Canada.)
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The chart is as about the same quality as the Yahoo! Answers.

I do understand the difference between Mexican and Hispanic. Apparently you didn't understand the gist of the conversation.
 
SAUSAGEMAN said:
Well, yes. She jumps into the thread with "I'm afraid of immigrants because people have spoken spanish near me," and, when presented with evidence showing that hispanophones actually assimilate into english very quickly, generationally, she ignores the evidence and goes back to fear-mongering about how immigrants have a secret plan to exterminate english in the US.

People who have ignorant opinions who fly in the face of available evidence are going to be ridiculed, and no amount of bashing "political correctness" is going to change that.
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All you have to offer up as evidence is some stupid chart that even the makers of dispute in a report the following year. It is further unreasonable for you to demand I accept your internet evidence that does not reflect what I actually see. I don't think that immigrants have a secret plan to exterminate English in the US. However, as it is, I do believe that at this point in time Mexicans do not have to speak or write or read English in order to live here. Therefore, they are not assimilating into the community, they are creating a society separated by language. If you lived where I live and drive on the same streets I do and saw all the stores that everything is all in Spanish, the clerks speak only Spanish, and it is obvious that the demographics for which the store is supplied is for Mexicans, then you would feel the same way I do. If you looked at the classifieds for the jobs in this area and invariably saw that speaking Spanish is a requirement, then you would feel the same way I do. If you find yourself in the store or the park and the only languages you hear spoken are Spanish, then you would feel the same way I do. If you drove by the music venue downtown that is supposed to be for everyone and the songs are being sung in Spanish, then you would feel the same way I do.

Talk about ignorant opinions - try fixing your own.
 
The point Eloisel is not trying to make is that latinos tend to be rather ethnocentric, it's not so much that latinos refuse to learn english but it "might" be so much that latinos, whether or not they speak english expect everyone else to speak spanish because "they" are latino. They wish to not..assimilate into american culture, but to superimpose upon it. They would probably call it a biproduct of "La Raza". We would call it biproduct of "birthright".
 
Daystrom said:
The point Eloisel is not trying to make is that latinos tend to be rather ethnocentric, it's not so much that latinos refuse to learn english but it "might" be so much that latinos, whether or not they speak english expect everyone else to speak spanish because "they" are latino. They wish to not..assimilate into american culture, but to superimpose upon it. They would probably call it a biproduct of "La Raza". We would call it biproduct of "birthright".
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This is a ridiculous concern, and the same one advanced by american nativist movements with every wave of immigration that's happened in your country. People were saying the very same things about the germans (they have their own schools! they don't learn english!), the irish (they're tools of the pope!), the italians (both on catholicism and language), jews, the chinese, the japanese, and so on. Every single time, the people advancing those arguments have been wrong and the groups have been fully assimilated into american society.

To believe that hispanics coming to the US don't want to assimilate is to somehow believe that they came to the US with nefarious purposes, and that they want to work against their own self interest. It shouldn't really be forgotten that immigrants uprooted their entire lives and left their friends and family behind because they wanted to be American, and the American Dream says that, no matter who you are and where you come from, you can get there and make it if you work hard.

(And, hey, if you're not fluent in spanish, agitating a strawman about "La Raza" is kinda silly. Words that sound similar in two languages actually carry a slew of differing connotations and subtleties, and "raza" can not be directly translated to "race", especially not in this case. "Raza" can also mean "people", a nuance it shares, incidentally, with the french word "race".)
 
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