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How Wordforge was stolen from Borgs

I'm not sure why there is a point to arguing this any more. It has been clear for a few days that no-one will ever concede that they acted in a crappy manner, and no-one will concede that the admin at WF may have acted with good intentions.

Any issues are being lost in mudslinging and people have picked their sides and will tow the line in an argument to save face, regardless of what their opinion in the cold light of day may be.

Nick's scored plus points to me by saying the database thing might not have been moral. At least he's had the bollocks to look through the trolling and see it from the other point of view, and that suggests to me that he's approaching some issues logically.

I like a lot of people at WF, but I don't like how some things are dealt with. I don't like how people who have raised problems are denigrated or dismissed, and not just by staff. IMHO, even if you shut dissenters up, there's no real victory in it because the problems are still there.

I have a lot more time for people who admit they've made mistakes -- as expected under human nature -- but genuinely want to try and sort through it. At the moment, though, it's beginning to look like a tired sitcom where the players are working through the script to stereotype. :-?

Where's all the maverick spirit gone? :(
 
Friday said:
In all seriousness, I think you're right. Look at Listkeeper. He was fired from his job because of Wordforge, but NOT ONE member of staff told him he should get his priorities straight. They all commiserated with him.
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:lol:
 
Markb said:
Two questions, J. Allen.
1. Did you not read the first post of the thread?
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I did. However, when I read about a chain of events like this taking place, I like having more than one source from which to draw information.

2. Have you seen anybody involved deny it?
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That does not always indicate guilt.

Seriously, Nick admitted it, Tamar admitted it. Chris admitted it. Bear admitted it. What else do you require? Stone tablets with flaming letters?
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I require the whole story, from as many sides as possible. Then I mediate between what is and is not feasible, what is most likely, add in a dash of human nature, a touch of logic and I reach a conclusion. But yes, stone tablets with flaming letters would be awesome, but I would demand the credibility and authority of the author.


-J.
 
J. Allen said:
That does not always indicate guilt.
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In this case, I'd say it is. You know that accused would jump at the opportunity to use a false claim to cut the accusers off at the knees.
 
J. Allen said:
But yes, stone tablets with flaming letters would be awesome, but I would demand the credibility and authority of the author.
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J., there was a time I would rever you like anything.

But right now you are coming off not just like a douchebag but a complete and utter MORON.

Can't you fucking SEE anything?

:roll:
 
Denny Crane said:
J., there was a time I would rever you like anything.

But right now you are coming off not just like a douchebag but a complete and utter MORON.

Can't you fucking SEE anything?

:roll:
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No, J Allen is being fair. And with all due respect, I'd go so far as to say he's a bit naive. I wouldn't have believed a bad word about the staff of WF two years ago myself.

I do respect J. Allen wanting to give everyone a fair chance. Far too often, people (myself included at times) tend to just pick one side and defend it to the death instead of taking the time to see what really happened and keep whatever bias out of it. I don't think he's a douchebag for that.

:shrug:
 
Tyrant said:
In this case, I'd say it is. You know that accused would jump at the opportunity to use a false claim to cut the accusers off at the knees.
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Denny Crane said:
J., there was a time I would rever you like anything.

But right now you are coming off not just like a douchebag but a complete and utter MORON.

Can't you fucking SEE anything?

:roll:
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I understand why the both of you would have serious issues with the WF staff. I would never fault you for that, and I do understand where you're coming from. I'm just going to hold off on making such a decision against the board. Like in all things, I try to approach from a side of caution. I've made hasty decisions in my life that have turned out to be very wrong, and have hurt people (emotionally). There's no way I'll make that same mistake again.

I still like and respect both of you (yes, both of you), but I can't jump in with you on this kind of thing yet.


Anna said:
No, J Allen is being fair. And with all due respect, I'd go so far as to say he's a bit naive. I wouldn't have believed a bad word about the staff of WF two years ago myself.

I do respect J. Allen wanting to give everyone a fair chance. Far too often, people (myself included at times) tend to just pick one side and defend it to the death instead of taking the time to see what really happened and keep whatever bias out of it. I don't think he's a douchebag for that.

:shrug:
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Thanks, Anna. I would admit that I can be naive, it's more of the optimist side of things. Believe me, I've seen some horrible stuff, but as long as I stand on the positive side of things, I have a chance to really keep an open mind and study what's going on. I do support Wordforge, and the staff. However, I wouldn't call myself a "yes" man as some might think. When I give people a clean slate, it's for real. When I came to TK, everyone who may have had a negative impact on me got a clean slate, and so far I'd say that it was a good decision. Hopefully my decision to hold on to Wordforge that it will grow, and be a good community is the right one.

Oh, and I love your little cat avatar, it just goes to show I can never say no to watching some great pussy licking action.
pipe.gif


There. That should keep the post from getting too sentimental.
wub.gif


-J.
 
I understand why the both of you would have serious issues with the WF staff. I would never fault you for that, and I do understand where you're coming from. I'm just going to hold off on making such a decision against the board. Like in all things, I try to approach from a side of caution. I've made hasty decisions in my life that have turned out to be very wrong, and have hurt people (emotionally). There's no way I'll make that same mistake again.

I still like and respect both of you (yes, both of you), but I can't jump in with you on this kind of thing yet.
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You misunderstand. I didn't mean to get deep. I have some issues with the staff in general, but this particular drama is boring me and seems disingenuous for reasons I won't get into.

I only meant that in this case, it seems unlike the individuals accused to not 'debate/attack back'. I don't think the people accused could restrain themselves for this long, and nothing more, something in response to your comment on guilt and denial.
 
Summerteeth said:
I'm not sure why there is a point to arguing this any more. It has been clear for a few days that no-one will ever concede that they acted in a crappy manner, and no-one will concede that the admin at WF may have acted with good intentions.
Click to expand...

I'd say they acted with good intentions. However the end doesn't justify the means.

I'd also say this has gone straight to their freaking heads. One only has to look at how anyone not part of the clique is treated. I'm talking Elitforge which contrary to some thickskulls out there doesn't include all the mods.
 
^
Actually, looking at the remaining moderatorship, there isn't a name on there I'd consider to be Eliteforge.
 
J. Allen said:
I understand why the both of you would have serious issues with the WF staff. I would never fault you for that, and I do understand where you're coming from. I'm just going to hold off on making such a decision against the board. Like in all things, I try to approach from a side of caution. I've made hasty decisions in my life that have turned out to be very wrong, and have hurt people (emotionally). There's no way I'll make that same mistake again.

I still like and respect both of you (yes, both of you), but I can't jump in with you on this kind of thing yet.




Thanks, Anna. I would admit that I can be naive, it's more of the optimist side of things. Believe me, I've seen some horrible stuff, but as long as I stand on the positive side of things, I have a chance to really keep an open mind and study what's going on. I do support Wordforge, and the staff. However, I wouldn't call myself a "yes" man as some might think. When I give people a clean slate, it's for real. When I came to TK, everyone who may have had a negative impact on me got a clean slate, and so far I'd say that it was a good decision. Hopefully my decision to hold on to Wordforge that it will grow, and be a good community is the right one.

Oh, and I love your little cat avatar, it just goes to show I can never say no to watching some great pussy licking action.
pipe.gif


There. That should keep the post from getting too sentimental.
wub.gif


-J.
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I can agree with that. Look, I never said anybody did all of this with evil intent. They didn't. Far from it, in fact. For the major part of this thing. they honestly believed the board was going down the tubes under the leadership, or lack of it, of Borgs, and that something drastic needed to be done to save it.
At the time, I agreed, which is why I participated in getting rid of him. What has changed for me, is the reasoning behind it. I consider some the actions of the board Admins to be far worse then Borgs ever was, and in light of that, I would be a hypocrite for letting it pass by.
If I did keep my mouth shut and look the other way because my friends were the ones in charge, it would make all of the arguments I made at TBBS and the founding of WF meaningless.
 
FBI parte due said:
Has anyone ever actually gone through with a promise to leave TK or WF forever?

I'm genuinely curious.
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It seems I've left WF forever, though I made no promise to. I received this email from Lanzman shortly after my ban.

Lanzman said:
Face,

I'm sure you're probably tempted to email me regarding your recent ban and I thought I would take the opportunity to contact you with a message. Don't bother. I've thought it through. Your only contribution to Wordforge is to make shitty trollish remarks and bad one liners. You don't post interesting content and you don't further discussion in threads. You are truly a drain on Wordforge and keeping you around is more trouble than it's worth. I've consulted with certain other staff members and they agree with this conclusion and, as such, I've decided that, as long as I own the board, you will not be permitted to rejoin.

I'm sure you'll post over at TK that you don't want to come back anyway, and that Wordforge sucks. So be it. Judging by your recent track record you'll probably just post this email for all the world to see without permission. I can't really stop that and I'll take whatever judgment that may come my way. Good luck in your endeavors.

-Lanzman
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Dear Lanzman,

I'm sorry it took me so long to respond to this email of yours. I just didn't give a shit.

Sincerely,

Faceman
 
Did he get banned?

I'm talking about the established tradition of announcing you're leaving forever, then lurking for a few weeks and trying to sneak back in.
 
Did he get banned?

I'm talking about the established tradition of loudly announcing you're leaving forever, then lurking for a few weeks and trying to sneak back in.
 
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