IF VA TECH HADN'T OUTLAWED GUNS ON CAMPUS

[Shitty Dual]

^^Drunken date-raping frat boys
PMS-ing feminazis
Trenchcoat goth milquetoasts
all packing to the gills.
What could possibly go wrong?

Well, in the first place, none of that crap would exist.

Right.

"...Utopias can only survive in their natural habitat: The minds of their creators."

 

[Shitty Dual]

Gun Control will not control the actions of a determined crazy person. If he/she can't get or make a gun, he'll find another way....

True, but when you make it easier to kill, which guns do, it takes less determination or nerve to actually do it. It's easier to aim and pull a trigger on someone at a distance than it is to walk up to them and plunge a knife into their flesh.

 

[RobL]

True, but when you make it easier to kill, which guns do, it takes less determination or nerve to actually do it. It's easier to aim and pull a trigger on someone at a distance than it is to walk up to them and plunge a knife into their flesh.

Actually, its easier to go to Wal-mart, buy a bunch of chemicals, then blow them up or set fire to them.

Hell, this way, you don't even have to see the people you kill. At least with a gun, you have to have a direct line-of-site to bump them off.

 

[headvoid]

I'm still not sure why people bring up making bombs or knives or gas etc. when we are talking about potential gun law.

Gun legislation will only ever be applicable to law abiding citizens and guns. This means that many, many people will have their lives inconvenienced to stop that one law abiding citizen who flips out. I accept this position, it is a price that gun owners in the UK have paid for 10 years of no lone psycho gunmen massacres. I also understand that there are historical and cultural reasons why this will never happen in the US.

Gun legislation is not designed to stop terrorism, drug and gang violence etc. I find it incongruous when these examples are wheeled out as reasons not to do it.

 

[missmanners]

I'm still not sure why people bring up making bombs or knives or gas etc. when we are talking about potential gun law.

Because people are using this event as a reason for more gun control. And gun laws wont stop crazy people who want to kill others from killing others. A determined crazy person will find other means to kill someone (bombs, knives, etc) The only thing that would stopped this perticular determined crazy person would have been to lock him up and medicate him when he was first determined to be dangerous (I'd like to see those laws changed myself, why isn't anyone talking about changing THOSE laws?) or for a well trained and well armed SANE person in one of those classrooms to start shooting back.

Gun legislation will only ever be applicable to law abiding citizens and guns. This means that many, many people will have their lives inconvenienced to stop that one law abiding citizen who flips out. I accept this position, it is a price that gun owners in the UK have paid for 10 years of no lone psycho gunmen massacres. I also understand that there are historical and cultural reasons why this will never happen in the US.

Gun legislation is not designed to stop terrorism, drug and gang violence etc. I find it incongruous when these examples are wheeled out as reasons not to do it.

I think there are an estimated 300 million firearms in the hands of private citizens in the USA. How do you suggest any gun legislation be enforced? If legal manufacture and sale were to stop tomorrow, the Mexican border would see an increase of people heading SOUTH in the night and factories would spring up in every major city along north and south borders. I'll bet you bad dog could make guns in his shop and I'll bet he would have more customers than he could handle.

The legislation designed to stop terrorism, drugs and gang violence isn't stopping them and there is no reason to think that any kind of gun legislation would stop a crazy person determined to kill other people.


mm

 

[headvoid]

I didn't say anything about reducing gun ownership, or stopping manufacture. You are putting words in my mouth.

Have you ever thought some gun legislation might be as simple as regular background checks and the ability to take a license away if they fail a psych test?

Anyway, I'm out of this - because it will never happen in the US.

I do think it's bizarre that you are all denying that the UK legislation - whilst a massive majority of Americans would hate it - has been successful in stopping lone gunmen massacres.

 

[Acrimonious]

You can't predict crazy.

Look at NASA:

You can't be a psycho and become an astronaut. They do extensive physical and psychological evaluations before you get to go into space. Yet we had some crazed astronaut strap diapers onto her ass and drive a few hundred miles with the intention of killing a woman who stole her man.


NASA again just recently. An engineer flips out, kills a few people and duct-tapes a woman and holds her hostage.

Both cases are examples of extremely intelligent people with security clearances. (This requires extensive criminal background checks and in most cases personal reference checks as well.)


Yet a small percentage of NASA employees have recently gone postal.

The fact is that completely sane, law-abiding people occasionally go psycho and we can't predict it.


Psychological evaluations aren't going to protect us. We can't rely on some headshrinks completely subjective opinion to keep us safe at night, at work, at school, or on the road.

The police take a few minutes to respond on a good day, and in a worst case scenario are completely inept. We can't rely on the police to protect us either. They're far more likely to show up after a crime to take statements and gather evidence. The damage is already done by this point.

Armed citizens are the first line of defense against people who flip out and start shooting innocent people. We need more armed citizens and we need to stop restricting the places they are allowed to carry weapons.

 

[Acrimonious]

The only thing that would have happened if guns were allowed on campus is that this shooting would not be shocking to the American public because it would be a weekly event. Just imagine young drunk college kids with easy access to guns. A bad grade? BLAM! Relationship gone sour? BLAM! I'm drunk and I'm bored? BLAM! You Word Forgers are as far from rationalized thinking as a penguin in the Amazon rain forest is to its natural enviroment.

What you don't realize is that one out of every ten people you meet in America is carrying a lawfully concealed and loaded firearm.

Where are the statistics to back up your nightmarish fantasy? Have you ever heard of anyone with a concealed carry permit going postal and shooting up a crowd of random people?


Take the US Army, for example. You have a bunch of young drunk guys stuck in a desert surrounded by people who hate them. Infidelity is extremely common and many relationships go sour when troops are deployed.

Yet how many of those Army guys (who have loaded weapons around them 24/7) flip out and go postal on their own people?

(I can only think of one: the muslim nigger US Army soldier that rolled live grenades into the officers' tents.)

Again, that sort of shoots your nightmarish theory full of holes.

 

[Acrimonious]

The UK legislation was aimed directly at lone law abiding gun owners who love their mom a little too much.

It has been successful. No lone gunmen killings in 10 years.

I own a gun, my ownership is regulated and I have to pass very easy tests regularly. Why do people have a problem with this?

How about your lone knifeman killings by a psychotic man? When is the UK going to protect its people with more restrictive knife laws? (Actually, they recently made some more hah)

Anyways...

Americans have a problem with that because it is an infringement on their right to keep and bear arms, a right specifically guaranteed them.

The same people who rebelled against King George and Great Brittain felt so strongly about the issue that they made sure to guarantee us that right, along with the rights of freedom of speech, freedom from unreasonable search and seizure, freedom of religion, etc.

I feel just as strongly as they did. The second ammendment has not been repealed, and therefore I have a right to keep and bear arms and that right shall not be infringed.

Look up the definition of infringe. Americans are to be free from any encroachment on their right to keep and bear arms. That means own and carry, not just lock up in a display case at home, only to take out for special hunting trips...

Proficiency tests, psychological analysis requirements, registration, waiting periods, caliber restrictions, magazine capacity restrictions, weapon type restrictions... all infringements. Each of them encroaches on a person's ability to own and carry firearms.

If I wanted to live under inneffective draconian gun-control laws I'd have already moved to the UK.

Thanks, but we don't like your laws and we don't want them here.

 

[Acrimonious]

Among the general population? No. Among irresponsible college kids? You bet. You will get 2 types to get them, the military crowd and the people who want people to think they are cool because they have one crowd. Its the latter that worries me.

You're missing a few things here.
In the US:
Anyone 18 or over who isn't a felon can purchase a longarm. (rifle or shotgun)
Anyone 21 or over who isn't a felon can purchase a handgun.
In most states, anyone 21 or over can apply for a concealed carry permit to carry loaded firearms concealed.

Most college students are between 18 and 22. By their junior or senior year, they're eligible to purchase handguns and carry them concealed anywhere in their state except for mental hospitals, hospitals, post offices, courthouses, prisons, and schools.

If they wanted to look cool because they owned a gun, they would already be doing so. If they were going to be immature and use the firearm irresponsibly, they would already be doing so.

The psychotic Korean who shot all of those innocents at Virginia Tech purchased his firearms legally. He carried them onto campus illegally.

There's already a gun-control law in place to protect the students, and that law failed to protect them.

The law did prohibit law-abiding students from protecting themselves.


What no one mentions now is that two years ago a student in Virginia (not at Virginia Tech) had a gun and started shooting people. Two other students went to their vehicle and retrieved their own firearms and returned to the scene where they detained the gunman for police.

Those two students saved lives and were called heros by the police and their fellow students.

That event barely got the briefest mention in the press and quickly faded out of common knowledge.

If those same two students had been at Virginia Tech that day, things would have been different. If a student in one of the classrooms at Virginia Tech would have been carrying a weapon, things would have been different.

The law only functions when the people feel a moral obligation to obey the law, or feel a strong enough fear of punishment/capture that they obey the law.

Psychotic people generally are out of touch with rational thought and moral obligations and often times have little fear or thought for the consequences of their actions, making laws relatively meaningless to them.

Furthermore, you can't predict when a perfectly sane, rational person will snap. No one, not even the panels of trained psychologists who evaluate astronauts, could have predicted that the deranged female astronaut was going to strap diapers onto her ass, hop into a car and drive a few hundred miles to go kill the woman who stole her man from her. And she was much older than 21.

 

[missmanners]

Remember Valentines Day, when an armed off duty cop having dinner with his wife jumped in and probably helped prevent more deaths at that Mall in Salt Lake City?

I can think of at LEAST 17 places within a 20 minute drive from me where I could buy a gun and no one would check my background. And I live in the middle of nowhere.

The ONLY thing that will help stop this kind of thing in the future is more well armed and well trained people.


mm

 

[dogbert]

Because people are using this event as a reason for more gun control. And gun laws wont stop crazy people who want to kill others from killing others. A determined crazy person will find other means to kill someone (bombs, knives, etc) The only thing that would stopped this perticular determined crazy person would have been to lock him up and medicate him when he was first determined to be dangerous (I'd like to see those laws changed myself, why isn't anyone talking about changing THOSE laws?) or for a well trained and well armed SANE person in one of those classrooms to start shooting back.



I think there are an estimated 300 million firearms in the hands of private citizens in the USA. How do you suggest any gun legislation be enforced? If legal manufacture and sale were to stop tomorrow, the Mexican border would see an increase of people heading SOUTH in the night and factories would spring up in every major city along north and south borders. I'll bet you bad dog could make guns in his shop and I'll bet he would have more customers than he could handle.

The legislation designed to stop terrorism, drugs and gang violence isn't stopping them and there is no reason to think that any kind of gun legislation would stop a crazy person determined to kill other people.


mm

I think another gun law will stop crazy people from shooting others. A national firearms ownership card would work. In order to get one a person would have to pass a background check to ensure they are not a loony or have a prison record for violent crimes. In order to purchase a gun, the purchaser must have a card. This will stop loonies from obtaining guns. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

 

[missmanners]

I think another gun law will stop crazy people from shooting others. A national firearms ownership card would work. In order to get one a person would have to pass a background check to ensure they are not a loony or have a prison record for violent crimes. In order to purchase a gun, the purchaser must have a card. This will stop loonies from obtaining guns. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

You're sweet, you know that?

:hook:
mm

 

[headvoid]

How about your lone knifeman killings by a psychotic man?

Name me one in the UK that reached above the level of 4 people in one incident (definition of a mass killing)

I may have to spell this out for you GUN LAW - is defined as LEGISLATION OR LAW that covers GUNS OR FIREARMS. That is all it is intended to do.

Thanks, but we don't like your laws and we don't want them here.

Fine, I'm not pushing them on you, these laws will not work in the US - but nowhere is there a better massive and live case study of reduction in lone gunman massacres / killings than the UK. 10 years and counting.

You are all in denial that Gun Law can actually work if given a clear objective and framework.

 

[headvoid]

 

[Tyrant]