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Liberals are mentally disturbed

I don't know what to tell you, Sarek. You won't accept any reality that doesn't suit what you want to believe.

Sweetheart, I've got a much better grasp of the realities of the Bush administration than you'll ever get from behind as desk. And my realities are written in the sand in the form of my fellow soldiers blood. ;)

Say it again that the only reason Eggs isn't in prison for bitching about the President is because there isn't any room left in a jail or a military establishment to put him. You want to believe that.

You're taking it out of context. It's well documented that the Republican party vocally and publicly condemned citizens of this country that didn't agree with Bush or his administration. I think the exact terms used were "terrorist sympathizers, domestic terrorists" and "un-American". And this countrys history has shown that once those thoughts enter American politics, well, you end up with interment camps and McCarthyism. It just so happens that the American public voted the Republican out before the real fireworks started. ;)

I have written on this message board before about the number of contracts and grants that come across my desk doling federal money out to local charities for homeless shelters, medical care programs, home care for HIV patient programs, fixing cars for poor people, money to repair poor people's homes, job training programs, food programs, etc. I can tell you but you want to believe that Bush doesn't care about poor people instead so that won't fit in with your core belief system.

Of course government cares about poor people. Issues regarding the poverty stricken are always fantastic campaign material. And god knows, it's easier to take a buck out of the poor mans pocket than it is to get 20 from a rich man. That's pretty much how the IRS works it anyway. Tell me this, for all the contracts for grants and aid that come across your desk, how many do you follow up on to see if and whether the funds were actually used for that purpose? How many get sidelined because of lack of funds or because someone down the line vetos it? How many fall to the Republican "I've got mine" ideology?

Poor little Hurricane Katrina victims got their rent paid for nearly 2 years. I know because I handled the contracts paying the landlords for more than 800 refugees. How long is the government supposed to support someone who has lived through a catastrophe? I've lived through a few - where's my freaking check?

You sound like a petulant child there. We'll forget the fact that there's still $116 billion worth of promised federal aid still missing and just concentrate on things like the crappy job done in rebuilding the damns, the fact that the Bush administration turned it's back on the people being screwed by shady insurance companies and the fact that Halliburton has picked up a few more lucrative contracts to clean up the coast and turn the area into a nice tourist resort for the rich. ;)

Keep bellering your the whole world is screwed because of Bush bullshit. I really did think you were smarter than that.

Again, you mistake what i say as having some personal impact on me and my family. It really didn't. We've had to tighten our belts a bit, but we're doing fine.

No, my complaint is with the blatantly obvious way that this administration has allowed corporate America and the rich fatcats to feed off the working backbone of this country. When corporate executives are pulling down multi million retirement settlements while their employees, the people that put tham there have to literally decide whether to put gas in the car or food on the table, whether to pay the electric bill or buy medication for the baby, there's a problem. Prices for gasoline and consumer goods have almost tripled in the last 8 years. But wages have stagnated while companies put away billions in profits.

You know, when I was in the military, I wasn't in touch with what was going on in this country. It was a pretty safe and secure environment to be in. I was even a strong supporter of Bush the first couple years. I noticed things going wrong when he diverted us into Iraq and left Osama running loose. But it wasn't until I tried to live off just my civilian pay that I realized just how fucked up government and corporate America have become. Between my wife and I, her career and my retirement, investments and careful planning, we've done well and will continue to do so. But there's no way a family of four could live off the income from my civilian job alone if we were forced too.

Someday, try coming out from behind your desk and take a walk through the streets. Don't always put so much faith in what you read on a piece of paper that might float across your desk. Because once it's gone, chances are, so are the noble ideas you thought it represented.
 
Sarek,

There is no doubt about it. You and I live in alternate universes.

I lived in poverty for many years and know very, very well about hard choices and doing without. I know very well about being denied any relief at all because I am white, because I've always worked, because I made a nickel too much. I know very well how it feels to work my way up to where I have a little bit, a home of my own, a little money in the bank, just to have it pulled out from under me by a president that sold my job in the NAFTA deal. Bush wasn't president then.

I also know quite well about what is on the streets and see it face to face when I'm out delivering food, coats and blankets to the homeless that won't go into the shelters but choose to live in the parks, under bridges, and roam the streets.

I know you won't understand this but when I have a contract in hand, it is backed up by money. It can't be approved if it isn't. That is what I do with that contract - make sure it is in compliance with the laws controlling it, that it contains the required language, that required insurance is in place, that funds to pay it are encumbered. There is no one down the line from me who can "veto" it. When it leaves my hands it is as good as paid. A few years ago we did have a service provider running a homeless shelter misappopriate the funds we gave him for the shelter. He is in prison now. He wasn't "Corporate America" - just a greedy asshole. And, we've had a few developers fail to meet their obligations under the economic development agreements we had with them. We either billed or sued them to recoup the taxes that were abated, per the clawback language in the contract.

I know you won't understand this either. It is not that I am a strong supporter of "Bush." I just don't lay all the faults of human beings and the problems in this country at his feet.

I would ask that you state your sources for this information:
We'll forget the fact that there's still $116 billion worth of promised federal aid still missing and just concentrate on things like the crappy job done in rebuilding the damns, the fact that the Bush administration turned it's back on the people being screwed by shady insurance companies and the fact that Halliburton has picked up a few more lucrative contracts to clean up the coast and turn the area into a nice tourist resort for the rich.
 
Katrina Aid Goes Toward Football Condos
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/huff-wires/20070813/katrina-luxury-condos/

Homeowners Sue Insurers for Denied Katrina Claims
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=6368165

Insurance companies fight paying billions in claims
http://www.cnn.com/CNN/Programs/and...2007/02/insurance-companies-fight-paying.html

Cheney Profits From Katrina
http://www.corpwatch.org/article.php?id=13509

Halliburton gets Katrina contract, hires former FEMA director
http://www.halliburtonwatch.org/news/hurricane_katrina.html

Former FEMA head and Halliburton lobbyist visits Louisiana for deals
http://www.halliburtonwatch.org/news/allbaugh.html

Congress probes hurricane clean-up contracts
http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2005/sep/11/hurricanekatrina.usnews

4 Firms Hired to Clear Debris in Gulf Coast
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/09/15/AR2005091502297.html?referrer=email

Navy awards another $6.5 million to Halliburton for Katrina work
http://www.halliburtonwatch.org/news/katrina5.html

Pentagon says Halliburton may be overcharging for hurricane cleanup
http://www.halliburtonwatch.org/news/hurricane_overcharge.html

Welcome to New Orleans: future home of rich, white condo dwellers
http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/news/ar...future_home_of_rich_white_condo_dwellers.html

Justice for New Orleans
And the Gulf Coast
http://www.ueunion.org/policy_kt.html

Billions in Katrina aid missing
http://phoenixwoman.wordpress.com/2007/08/23/report-billions-in-katrina-aid-missing/

Millions of Katrina Aid Money Missing!
http://www.talksudbury.com/forums/lofiversion/index.php/t3461.html

I could sit here for the next week and continue to pull up sources for about anything pertaining to Katrina. But the bottom line is, a contract is only as good as the persons or people honoring it. And in this administration, there isn't much honor. But there's a hell of a lot of money missing between Iraq and Katrina, and there's a hell of a lot of profit being made by companies that both Bush and Cheney are tied too. ;)
 
Eggs, another one whom I positively adore, sits around screaming he is going to be hauled off to prison because he bitches about Bush. Yet it is people like Bush that makes sure guys like Eggs can bitch all he wants and no one does haul him off to prison or bury him under some military establishment. Liberals are insane because they live in no reality other than the "Hate Bush" reality. They are paralyzed by their insanity and unfit to run this country as that is all they can do - Hate Bush.
I didn't know that was my "thing". ;)

I adore you too, but I find these statements to be inaccurate. It's Bush's (and Congress', and the military's) job to preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States, which they all swore to do willingly.

The Constitution is what guarantees my right to free speech, not the government or the military. The Constitution is my protection against tyranny, not the governent or the military. It's the job of the government and the military to enforce this reality. And if I choose not to join the government or the military, it doesn't mean I should quiet myself if I think they are doing a shitty job, or that the current regime is the latest in a dynastic pattern of shitty-job-doing that goes back to the architects of the Reagan era (notice I didn't say Reagan himself; the other telling trait of these regimes is that the Guy in the Chair is largely a communicator/entertainer, and not a visionary or CEO; his closest advisors get their hands dirty for him).

They seem to forget what is Job 1 whenever things get tough, or well whenever they feel like it really. The Reagan architects are what reshaped the word "liberal" into something dirty in the first place, rather than simply debate the merits of their convictions. All politics is about power, but the cons and neocons went as far as to try and permanently stack the deck in their favor. (Also to turn gerrymandering into an art form).

We're not insane, we're just tired of fighting an insane fight on an insane battlefield. The "sensible" ultra-conservatives are actually panic-stricken, paranoid, (sometimes) bigoted xenophobes who hide behind a shave and a haircut. And there's my generalization to keep the thread interesting. ;)
 
I didn't know they changed the name to The Bill of Limits.

But I understand your semantic argument. But it doesn't change my point. The Constitution and the Dec of Ind enumerate what we affirm to be everyone's rights as citizens.
 
I read through the sites you provided, Sarek. Little meat there regarding facts. Further, they fail to show where Bush was responsible for the wrong doing of any contractor, developer or insurance agency. In addition, the article about Cheney donating his options from Halliburton to charity per a 2001 agreement pretty much sums up the style of "journalism" of the reports presented. The man gave $6.8 million to charity and took it as a tax writeoff. "Not illegal but definitely soulless, cynical, opportunist, and greedty. So, no big surprise." That is a direct quote, including the spelling error. The article about car insurance claims in non-hurricane and natural disaster related incidents was what - a test to see if I was reading your material?
 
^I think you've missed the entire point of this argument.

I've always stated that a politician, regardless of the party is a crook. Government is no longer about or for the people in this country.

But the bigger problem is people like you who make broad sweeping generalizations based on a persons party or system of beliefs and then stubbornly refuse to consider differently.

You call into question my sources. Fine, it's the net and you can find opinions that support your own all over the place. But it's so interesting how someone pulls up an article from a quack in New York who claims all liberals are insane, and you not only swallow it hook, line and sinker, but you completely, un-categorically agree with this broad generalization not based on fact or example, but because to do contrary would go against the conservative kool-aid the Republican party has been serving you.

That to me is the epitome of insanity.
 
There you go making statements that are not supported - again. I said, "I agree with Dr. Rossiter to a large degree."

Sorry, not only do I not drink the Republican Kool-Aid, I don't drink the Democratic Kool-Aid, or yours, or anyone elses for that matter. I do not refuse to consider differently, but I don't discount what I know to be true because it doesn't support popular sound bites.

Now, quit bitching. This fighting is getting neither of us anywhere.

Bush is out of it. Cheney is out of it. More than likely it will be between Cain and Obama. Which of them do you think can get their head out of their ass and do something productive with the situation as it is instead of sitting around forever bitching?
 
I have mixed feelings about the small mom and pops. This is the thing about economic stability in a community - you need a workplace, a workforce, housing for the workforce, and infrastructure to meet the workforce's needs. Mom and pops have a place in there but they don't have broad enough shoulders to hold up the community alone. Not saying that Wal-Mart is the ideal employer; however, mom and pop might employ 10 people whereas Wal-Mart could employ upwards of a couple of hundred depending on the size of the store. Not to mention, Wal-Mart is going to buy more from wholesale suppliers - thereby employing more people to manufacture the goods to meet the demand. Wal-Mart also has more bargaining power in purchasing to keep the prices down, which is good for the consumer. Wal-Mart is going to pay more in city, county, state, and federal taxes, too, than mom and pop. Roads get built off of tax dollars, as do water treatment facilities, libraries and schools. Those are good things. The mom and pops can survive in that atmosphere because people don't always want to park in the big parking lot, walk half a mile to the store and half a mile inside the store to get a gallon of milk when they can get it at the local convenience store for a little higher price. They can also survive with speciality items and services that the big retailers don't. Plus, not everybody is cut out to run their own business. I know I'd have starved a long time ago if someone wouldn't hire me to do whatever the hell it is I do.

You're not a good Capitalist, my darling.

This is what's WRONG with our country. A free market isn't sold to the highest bidder at the lowest price for the lowest common denominator of goods exploited from the cheapest labor. No one wins in that game except some fat asshole who YOU'LL never meet.

Vermont would be a wonderful lesson for you. Why does Monsanto FEAR us? (psst...bGh labelling ;) Why is the McDonald's they tried to put up in Stowe the only McD's franchise ever gone bankrupt? Why did WalMart fail to fill the space that Big Lots currently occupies in Morrisville?

Why can't Big Business survive in a small town?

As far as WalMart being some sort of "employer" the only thing they employ is your tax dollars, hard at work to pay for the social services that people who actually work there full time depend on to survive. Insurance. You pay for every person's insurance that earns under 1600 a month at WM and has kids (that's 80 per cent of your Texas WM employees, didja know that? Food Stamps. You pay for em, my darling. Child Care. Yep, you subsidize that so they can work there and stay poor. The only difference between WalMart and WelFare is where the money goes after.

Thank God for "Mom & Pop" They're the "canaries in the coal mine" of the true health of any local economy.
 
Sarek,

There is no doubt about it. You and I live in alternate universes.

I lived in poverty for many years and know very, very well about hard choices and doing without. I know very well about being denied any relief at all because I am white, because I've always worked, because I made a nickel too much. I know very well how it feels to work my way up to where I have a little bit, a home of my own, a little money in the bank, just to have it pulled out from under me by a president that sold my job in the NAFTA deal. Bush wasn't president then.

I also know quite well about what is on the streets and see it face to face when I'm out delivering food, coats and blankets to the homeless that won't go into the shelters but choose to live in the parks, under bridges, and roam the streets.

I know you won't understand this but when I have a contract in hand, it is backed up by money. It can't be approved if it isn't. That is what I do with that contract - make sure it is in compliance with the laws controlling it, that it contains the required language, that required insurance is in place, that funds to pay it are encumbered. There is no one down the line from me who can "veto" it. When it leaves my hands it is as good as paid. A few years ago we did have a service provider running a homeless shelter misappopriate the funds we gave him for the shelter. He is in prison now. He wasn't "Corporate America" - just a greedy asshole. And, we've had a few developers fail to meet their obligations under the economic development agreements we had with them. We either billed or sued them to recoup the taxes that were abated, per the clawback language in the contract.

I know you won't understand this either. It is not that I am a strong supporter of "Bush." I just don't lay all the faults of human beings and the problems in this country at his feet.

I would ask that you state your sources for this information:

By the way, if I ever forget how much I love, admire and respect you, this reminds me.
 
Who do you think runs "Big Business?"
Employees and stockholders - people who like getting paid - that's who

Big businesses (ie: transnational corporations) are "run" by investment funds, cannibalizing a whopping 15% of the investment in favour of short-term rentability. This basically defeats the purpose of the economies of scale which is the crux of "Big businesses", fucking the employee and -at a lesser degree the stockholder- in the ass on the short term and basically murdering the capital on the long term. (Think 1930's) That's from a "who runs who big biz's" perspective.

From a market systems perspective, the proliferation of big businesses you're orgasming about will eventually lead to an oligopoly which would get stabilized and morph into a de-facto monopoly. Rock on, free market frauds !

Small time companies, mom n' pops shops should be able to survive this massacre done in the name of effectiveness and efficiency and I don't see how "Big Businesses" would rather help in that context. Au contraire, when you go big, and put your ressources in common, that results in a lesser need of input (workforce, among others). Instead of 10000 scattered little shops each having 5 employees, you'd have one megamall having 15000 employees, sending 35000 motherfuckers into oblivion.
 
I don't think liberals have a mental disorder and while I appreciate their passion, I have met born again Christians less fanatical. Shoving your political pov down my throat isn't going to convince me you're right and I'm wrong, sorry.
 
I don't think liberals have a mental disorder and while I appreciate their passion, I have met born again Christians less fanatical. Shoving your political pov down my throat isn't going to convince me you're right and I'm wrong, sorry.

Porn again Christians.
 
Big businesses (ie: transnational corporations) are "run" by investment funds, cannibalizing a whopping 15% of the investment in favour of short-term rentability. This basically defeats the purpose of the economies of scale which is the crux of "Big businesses", fucking the employee and -at a lesser degree the stockholder- in the ass on the short term and basically murdering the capital on the long term. (Think 1930's) That's from a "who runs who big biz's" perspective.

From a market systems perspective, the proliferation of big businesses you're orgasming about will eventually lead to an oligopoly which would get stabilized and morph into a de-facto monopoly. Rock on, free market frauds !

Small time companies, mom n' pops shops should be able to survive this massacre done in the name of effectiveness and efficiency and I don't see how "Big Businesses" would rather help in that context. Au contraire, when you go big, and put your ressources in common, that results in a lesser need of input (workforce, among others). Instead of 10000 scattered little shops each having 5 employees, you'd have one megamall having 15000 employees, sending 35000 motherfuckers into oblivion.

You make some good points. While it's been my experience that most conservatives like to taut a strong belief in free enterprise and capitalism, most are relatively naive when it comes to concepts like monopolies and what it does to competition. Especially in the form of small business.

A good example is Reagen's deregulation of the airlines industry. Large corporations slowly absorbed the smaller airlines, airfares went through the roof, quality of service went down and eventually, the airlines ran into financial troubles.

Take Northwest. It's a prime example of fucking the masses. In my state, Northwest took out a loan from the state and the Metro airport commission to expand it's main hub. The airlines ran into financial trouble after 9/11. So the fix? They screwed the employee's from baggage handlers to pilots, defaulted on their loans, filed bankruptcy, forced the employees into a strike, got a judge to force them back to work with substandard concessions, and got the majority of the loans dismissed.

Then they turned around and gave the top executive multi million dollar bonuses, perks and vacation packages, and now they're trying to buy out and merge with Delta airlines.

That's the reality of big business. Fuck the majority for the elite minority.
 
the proliferation of big businesses you're orgasming about
Dear little Marquis - Jack could give me an orgasm. Lord of Dorkness could give me an orgasm. Love Child could give me an orgasm. Big business, proliferating or otherwise, could not give me orgasm.
 
Dear little Marquis - Jack could give me an orgasm. Lord of Dorkness could give me an orgasm. Love Child could give me an orgasm. Big business, proliferating or otherwise, could not give me orgasm.

Translation :

"I do not have a remote idea about what the fuck I was talking about. Since I am completely oblivious to the fact that concentration rapes the workforce, and what I was proudly and loudly regurgitating is absolute bullshit and pure nonsense, I will attempt to throw an funny, cool, and sexual internet joke. That will make them forget that I spent a shitload of minutes/hours/days writing long blocs of text containing nothing but crap, and defiance to any form of logic."
 
Translation - you are jealous you were not mentioned.

The thread became a love fest between you and Sarek, supporting each other's conclusory arguments. Please - mom & pop's are the savior of the economy - hiring 5 people at a time - probably all related - at minimum wage with no health insurance, retirement, sick leave, or vacation benefits for non-family employees.

Further, if you don't like the devolvement into sexual reference, then don't pollute it with sexual reference to begin with.
 
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