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Nascent Drama

Dirk Funk said:
You'll get no argument from me. But what contributed to that?? A draconian regulatory system, and excessive taxation. These things made the US a difficult business climate. If we had controlled the urge to regulate and tax everything that moved, we could have prevented much of that. Get rid of the income tax, go to a consumption tax, and get rid of the excessive regulations and those jobs will return.
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Bullshit. you think your average board of directors is going to say, "Oh well, they're not taxing us quite as much now, I guess we can stop piping comercials directly into people's brains."

No. Their sole purpose it to make money. At any cost. Trusting them, or making things easier for them is like giving a 3 year old a loaded gun, and hoping for the best.
 
The Dork Lord said:
Where did I mention anything of traits, desireble or otherwise?

I'm talking about sheer numbers here. There's simply too many people. That's nothing new, either. People have been saying this for a long time.

If you want to stick to the "facts", don't resort to cheap rhetorical tacticts like Godwin's Law ;)
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It was mentioned here long before I said it.
 
Mirah said:
You want to regulate how many children people have? Which I'm not saying is a bad thing-I wish we could do this-but we can't. (not yet anyway)
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We can't? Why can't we? Is there some physical reason you couldn't tie the woman's tubes or give the father a vasectamy after the second child is born?

Or is there some cultural reason?
 
The Dork Lord said:
Bullshit. you think your average board of directors is going to say, "Oh well, they're not taxing us quite as much now, I guess we can stop piping comercials directly into people's brains."

No. Their sole purpose it to make money. At any cost. Trusting them, or making things easier for them is like giving a 3 year old a loaded gun, and hoping for the best.
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And you want to trust government instead?
 
The Dork Lord said:
We can't? Why can't we? Is there some physical reason you couldn't tie the woman's tubes or give the father a vasectamy after the second child is born?

Or is there some cultural reason?
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Damn right there's a cultural reason. You have no right is why! What else do you propose? Forced abortions and infanticide for those who "break the two child rule"? You really need some help.
 
A government can be gontrolled to an extent by it's people. We have elections, representatives and laws in place to control them.

Right now NOTHING controls big buisness, except the deire for more wealth.

So yes, outside of marx's rebellion of the common man, which I'm rapidly losing faith in, I'd rather have some regulations in place to proctect my interests, as opposed to none.
 
Dirk Funk said:
Damn right there's a cultural reason. You have no right is why! What else do you propose? Forced abortions and infanticide for those who "break the two child rule"? You really need some help.
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Oh I'm sorry, having 4 billion people starving to death, and the other 2 billion turning the entire PLANET into a huge parking lot is clearly superior.

What was I thinking?
 
The Dork Lord said:
A government can be gontrolled to an extent by it's people. We have elections, representatives and laws in place to control them.
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Until it gains sufficient power so as to not be concerned about what it's people think. When the government no longer fears it's people it becomes very dangerous. Ayn Rand said: "The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws" Is that the kind of place you want to live?
.
 
The Dork Lord said:
Oh I'm sorry, having 4 billion people starving to death, and the other 2 billion turning the entire PLANET into a huge parking lot is clearly superior.

What was I thinking?
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They aren't starving because of population, they are starving because of politics! Because of the thugs and tyrants who run their countries. How many thousands of tons of food aid rot on the tarmac of these countries because the leaders of those countries refuse to give it to their people?
 
Dirk Funk said:
Until it gains sufficient power so as to not be concerned about what it's people think. When the government no longer fears it's people it becomes very dangerous. Ayn Rand said: "The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws" Is that the kind of place you want to live?
.
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Ayn fucking Rand? Are you kidding me? That explains a lot.

Yes, there is a danger of the government becoming too powerful, and I doubt there's been one that has completely got it right.

But a government is FAR LESS corruptible than a corporation.

The very idea of a company is to grow and gain power, and eliminate the competition.

Plus, a government can at least be rebelled against.

How exactly do you rebel against those that provide you with all your goods and services, determine how you entertain yourself, and control nearly every facet of your life?

How do you argue with the bottom line?
 
Dirk Funk said:
They aren't starving because of population, they are starving because of politics! Because of the thugs and tyrants who run their countries. How many thousands of tons of food aid rot on the tarmac of these countries because the leaders of those countries refuse to give it to their people?
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Now you're going to argue with basic logic?

An experiment: Take a rat, put him in a cage. Give him just enough food and water to live. The next day, add another rat. The next day do the same and so on. How long before the rats are eating each other?

People are not starving beacasue of corrup governemnts. Governemts don't decide how much land area the planet has, or how much food will grow on that land, or if the weather will allow that food to grow.

They quite often don't even decide how that food is distributed.

The corporations that own the food do ;)
 
The Dork Lord said:
Plus, a government can at least be rebelled against.
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Historically, yes. In this day and age, rebellions (as opposed to military coups, which are rare relative to their past prevalence) just don't work, particularly in the first world. You want to rebel against the USA? I do, but I'd get torn to shreds. It's not plausible for a civilian insurrection to emerge victorious from any level of confrontation with our government.
 
Dual said:
Historically, yes. In this day and age, rebellions (as opposed to military coups, which are rare relative to their past prevalence) just don't work, particularly in the first world. You want to rebel against the USA? I do, but I'd get torn to shreds. It's not plausible for a civilian insurrection to emerge victorious from any level of confrontation with our government.
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And how would our chances be against AOL, DISNEY, GE, etc.?

The forces that not only supply us with food, clothing, medicine, etc. but also supply our government with their weopons that make them so formidible in the first place?
 
The Dork Lord said:
And how would our chances be against AOL, DISNEY, GE, etc.?

The forces that not only supply us with food, clothing, medicine, etc. but also supply our government with their weopons that make them so formidible in the first place?
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Don't obfuscate. AOL and Disney don't control nukes, write the laws, and have massive standing armies, or even collect taxes. They're corporations, and you know how you fight corporations? That's right; you stop giving them your money. Totalitarian and faceless as you may think the private sector is, it can't force you to do anything. Here's where the government and corporations differ: The government can.
 
Dual said:
Don't obfuscate. AOL and Disney don't control nukes, write the laws, and have massive standing armies, or even collect taxes. They're corporations, and you know how you fight corporations? That's right; you stop giving them your money. Totalitarian and faceless as you may think the private sector is, it can't force you to do anything. Here's where the government and corporations differ: The government can.
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Really Dual, really? And how do you propose we "don't give them our money" Go back into the woods and hunt deer? All six billion of us?

And where would the almighty US government be if our industries decide to stop pouring billions of dollars into it?

Who will make the planes? How will the president run his campaign, without an election fund?

The government is nothing but a paper tiger.

Its owner is the true power.
 
I disagree with most of you here. I don't think society or humans as a whole are "messed up." Life is not fair, life is not just.

We are all sci-fi nuts, we can all see and understand that the universe does not feel; or at least does not feel in a way that we can relate to. Comets can smash into planets bearing life. Millions of people can die what we consider a senseless death. Plants and animals are born and die and can spend entire life cycles without our direct interaction. Do you blame the whole of bee-manity for all the bees that die? Or the ants for having a corrupt social structure?

Bad things happen. Sometimes bad things happen to good people. Holding your "eNd iS NIGh" sign for all teh interwebz to see is neither original nor impressive. It won't encourage the positive social interaction you are seeking. By blaming society for the wrongs you perceive you are in effect blaming everbody but yourself for not making the world the way you want.

This post wasn't just for your benefit, Pickle. It was also for the benefit of anyone who thinks they know what is wrong with the universe and how to fix it. For all of you misguided individuals: The universe isn't your problem. YOU are your problem, and YOU are the only thing that can fix YOUR problem.
 
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