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TS...
- Thread starter Friday
- Start date
DarthSikle
GFHH Moderator
no
Marquis De Sade
I came for the spankings
It serves you right, for kissing little girls.
Friday
Bazinga!
There is no way the girls i kiss can be described as "little".
Well endowed, definitely....
Why?
Isn't the denial of listening to glossed over facts about an important point in history just a way of making critical reasoning taboo?
Sure, the Holocaust denial movement has been hijacked by racists as a point to make against Jews but it doesn't stop there. There are definitely huge glaring discrepancies with the "official account" and that needs to be addressed as a service to history.
And no culture, race, country or ideology can declare history off limits to further their own radical agendas.
I would take precedence with ANY subject that took a "lalalalalala" approach to an issue. It's fundamentalism at its finest.
Friday
Bazinga!
The Holocaust happened. There is no doubt about that. Ask those older people with numbers tattooed on their arms how they acquired them.
I reiterate. Holocaust denial is a thinly disguised vehicle for anti-semitism.
Laker_Girl
Mrs. Big Dick McGee
I'm not entirely sure The Saint denies the Holocaust ever happened, I think he is of the opinion that it did not happen on the grand scale Jews report.
Even I must admit that 6 million seems incredible and I'm 99% sure my grandma was really Jewish.
Even I must admit that 6 million seems incredible and I'm 99% sure my grandma was really Jewish.
Grandtheftcow
Grand Wizard of TK
OK fine you can play our evil anti-semitic, thats ignoring all the other groups that the Nazis loved just as much.
What discrepancies are there with the official historical account?
That doesn't even come close to counting as a basic argument. :lol:Laker_Girl said:
I don't deny a holocaust happened. I take issue with the grossly inflated numbers that have been kept at six million for political reasons. If any of you want to argue that point with me I'll make you look like idiots. Just a friendly.
But if you want to play then pony up.
Most history books list 6,000,000 for the number of murdered Jews. Most historical counts immediately after the war show estimated Jewish losses at about 5.7mm. The Jewish leadership, wishing to maximize world favor so they could take over Palestine after the war, doggedly have stuck to these high numbers.
These numbers were derived from two sources - one was Nazi records and second, from a direct census of European Jewery taken after the war (which of course is compared to prewar estimates).
Both methods represent inflated figures. It has since been well documented that many Jews hid their ethnic identity during and after the war (see the USA Secretary of State under Clinton for a perfect example). Thus the missing Jews after the war taken by census may actually have been a huge miscount. (Aside: It is not well known in the West, but a second 'holocaust' occurred in Poland shortly after the end of WWII, where Catholic Poles ethnically cleansed their nation of Jews. At least some tens of thousands of Jews were killed during this action.
Again, this and similar actions would give strong incentive to those Jews remaining to keep their ethnicity hidden from any census taker.)
As for records, it is now well documented that the Soviets grossly exaggerated the numbers of dead for Auschwitz. Probably a million died there, while the Soviets claimed four million. Otherwise, there is physical evidence that indicates the impossibility of killing 6,000,000 persons by gas chambers and other similar state sanctioned methods, during the time of the war.
If empirical evidence is denied due to the "sensitive" nature and repercussions of doing so then we have history dictated by feelings and emotions rather than cold facts.
Thus my opinion is that probably about 2,000,000 Jews, possibly 3,000,000, were killed by various actions - concentration camps, execution, direct military deaths, disease, death camps, Allied bombing, etc. While this is still a very large number and represents a huge humanitarian tragedy, it is not so huge as to dwarf other similar ethic battles of the last few centuries. (a few examples: Germany lost one third of her population during the Hundred Years War, a religious conflict. The French killed approximately 2,000,000 civilian Spaniards during the reign of Napoleon. Germany lost about 3,000,000 civilian dead after WWII - some to deliberate starvation in Western camps but mostly due to cold murder by Soviets and their allies.)
As first noted, the political scene in much of the West is such that rational discussion of this topic is generally not possible. Elements of Jewish government and groups wish to cling to the higher number in order to continue garnering sympathy. Those who disagree are labeled hate mongers and Nazi's. Perhaps in another generation, saner heads will prevail and the history can be more accurately accounted.
I had close ties to the Jewish community in London when I was growing up. I have absolutely no problem with Jewish people whatsoever. What I have a problem with is any group or state that would use a distortion of history to further an agenda. And that is what the inflation and distortion of the holocaust has provided.
I find it very telling that a number which has ultimately been agreed upon to be symbolic and in no way provable and in actual fact contradictory can result in legal and social persecution for those who even question it. Apparently to question it at all is tantamount to racism. Even displayed in this thread by GTC and Friday. Of course each is making blatant assumptions of racism due to the questioning itself. Sheep like if anything.
No, I won't play the evil anti-semitic. Sorry on that, GTC.
But if you want to play then pony up.
Many. But we will go with a simple one.
Most history books list 6,000,000 for the number of murdered Jews. Most historical counts immediately after the war show estimated Jewish losses at about 5.7mm. The Jewish leadership, wishing to maximize world favor so they could take over Palestine after the war, doggedly have stuck to these high numbers.
These numbers were derived from two sources - one was Nazi records and second, from a direct census of European Jewery taken after the war (which of course is compared to prewar estimates).
Both methods represent inflated figures. It has since been well documented that many Jews hid their ethnic identity during and after the war (see the USA Secretary of State under Clinton for a perfect example). Thus the missing Jews after the war taken by census may actually have been a huge miscount. (Aside: It is not well known in the West, but a second 'holocaust' occurred in Poland shortly after the end of WWII, where Catholic Poles ethnically cleansed their nation of Jews. At least some tens of thousands of Jews were killed during this action.
Again, this and similar actions would give strong incentive to those Jews remaining to keep their ethnicity hidden from any census taker.)
As for records, it is now well documented that the Soviets grossly exaggerated the numbers of dead for Auschwitz. Probably a million died there, while the Soviets claimed four million. Otherwise, there is physical evidence that indicates the impossibility of killing 6,000,000 persons by gas chambers and other similar state sanctioned methods, during the time of the war.
If empirical evidence is denied due to the "sensitive" nature and repercussions of doing so then we have history dictated by feelings and emotions rather than cold facts.
Thus my opinion is that probably about 2,000,000 Jews, possibly 3,000,000, were killed by various actions - concentration camps, execution, direct military deaths, disease, death camps, Allied bombing, etc. While this is still a very large number and represents a huge humanitarian tragedy, it is not so huge as to dwarf other similar ethic battles of the last few centuries. (a few examples: Germany lost one third of her population during the Hundred Years War, a religious conflict. The French killed approximately 2,000,000 civilian Spaniards during the reign of Napoleon. Germany lost about 3,000,000 civilian dead after WWII - some to deliberate starvation in Western camps but mostly due to cold murder by Soviets and their allies.)
As first noted, the political scene in much of the West is such that rational discussion of this topic is generally not possible. Elements of Jewish government and groups wish to cling to the higher number in order to continue garnering sympathy. Those who disagree are labeled hate mongers and Nazi's. Perhaps in another generation, saner heads will prevail and the history can be more accurately accounted.
I had close ties to the Jewish community in London when I was growing up. I have absolutely no problem with Jewish people whatsoever. What I have a problem with is any group or state that would use a distortion of history to further an agenda. And that is what the inflation and distortion of the holocaust has provided.
I find it very telling that a number which has ultimately been agreed upon to be symbolic and in no way provable and in actual fact contradictory can result in legal and social persecution for those who even question it. Apparently to question it at all is tantamount to racism. Even displayed in this thread by GTC and Friday. Of course each is making blatant assumptions of racism due to the questioning itself. Sheep like if anything.
The Question
Eternal
Okay, what's the agenda?
Been there. Done that. Got the blood of a dozen reputations on my boots to prove it.
The Question
Eternal
Actually, I've changed my mind about being a skeptic on this subject, in light of new evidence. Evidence which I present... now.
German diagram for a mass homicidal gas chamber -- note the tiny stick-figure drawings of millions of terrified Jews clutching bombs and trying to remember which British consulate to blow up so that the world could be introduced to modern terrorism:
http://chromus.kajigger.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/las-vegas-2007/hoover-dam-front-diagram.jpg
Plate of holocaust victims:
Unrepentant German guard Oeberleiutnant Boppo, who personally carried out the executions of 23.2 billion Jews in cardboard boxes with the words "Nazi Gas Chamber" written on the side, by brutally and repeatedly farting into them:
German starship, circa 1939:
Obviously, the evidence is far more convincing than that put forth in the mainstream press.
German diagram for a mass homicidal gas chamber -- note the tiny stick-figure drawings of millions of terrified Jews clutching bombs and trying to remember which British consulate to blow up so that the world could be introduced to modern terrorism:
http://chromus.kajigger.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/las-vegas-2007/hoover-dam-front-diagram.jpg
Plate of holocaust victims:
Unrepentant German guard Oeberleiutnant Boppo, who personally carried out the executions of 23.2 billion Jews in cardboard boxes with the words "Nazi Gas Chamber" written on the side, by brutally and repeatedly farting into them:
German starship, circa 1939:
Obviously, the evidence is far more convincing than that put forth in the mainstream press.
Friday
Bazinga!
Menty, take your anti-semitism and peddle it elsewhere.
TS, very funny. Or not.
Your agenda is this: your denial is simply a troll. You believe this Holocaust denial crap about as much as I do, but have used it time and again as an effective troll.
You see, I don't believe you are a racist. Actually, I think you're a cool guy.
TS, very funny. Or not.
Your agenda is this: your denial is simply a troll. You believe this Holocaust denial crap about as much as I do, but have used it time and again as an effective troll.
You see, I don't believe you are a racist. Actually, I think you're a cool guy.
CaptainWacky
I want to smell dark matter
Sigh.
What's the point in calling someone out if you're not willing to discuss the issue?
Marquis De Sade
I came for the spankings
"Anti-Semitism" is a term coined by some j00 fuckwit, in order to belittle rational thought in favour of emotional blabbering, nonsense, and outright mythology.
For some strange reason, pointing out that Christians/Muslims/Hindus/Satanists/etc. are hypocrites, and insulting their doctrine, is supposed to make one an enlightened individual who "gets it". On the other hand, doing this to "Jews" would earn you the "anti-semitic" label.
Anti semitic ? What the fuck ? Arabs who live in Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, and Palestine are fucking Semites too, yet I don't see the self-righteous jew huggers who spew their "ur antisemitic hahahahaha" mantra defending them.
Everyone who defends j00s based on the "omfg ur antisemitic lololol pwn3d" argument (or lack thereof) is an incult that deserves to be hung from the balls or stabbed in the clitoris.
Cheers.
Grandtheftcow
Grand Wizard of TK
Well I guess that depends on your definition of "grossly inflated".
Jew hater! I bet it somehow has to do with that thing you have for twelve year olds and coke too!
K. J00z did WTC!!!!11111111
Most sources I've seen state an estimate between five and six million.
As far as I know most studies use prewar census and postwar census.
I 'd also like some sources on this claim since I've never heard about Jews hiding their ancestry post war.
You're trying to mix two different points into one.
Also the official figure Auschwitz is 1.1 million.
So far the only issue I have with your claims is the intent you're trying to place behind them.
You just pulled a number out of your ass. There's no breakdown of data or even an attempt to display evidence supporting your claims.
This is TK not western media so cries of persecution and censorship hardly apply you hate mongering Nazi.
Yeah dude I totally have Jewish friends too. I even hang out with them and stuff.
Your issues have more to do with the political fallout of the holocaust rather than the holocaust itself.
I'm well aware that official figures are based largely on estimates however it'll take far more than bitching about Jewish political agendas to convince me or likely anyone else that the actual Jewish dead was as low as you stated.
LOL.
You talk about pulling numbers out of ones ass? -- That's the whole point. six-million-dead is the greatest ass pulled number ever.
You fucking Anti-semitic piece of shit. It was 1.5 million you worthless spineless Nazi sympathizing bitch.
Ahem...
Thanks for that anyway. Because before 1990 it was officially 4 million. That was, as you stated, finally changed. But the number of dead was still kept at six million. Quite odd considering 2.5 million deaths were subtracted from the original six million. Why? Because six million is just a completely magic number that doesn't really mean anything. Just as long as it is never subtracted or revised given new and existing evidence. It has nothing to do with reality.
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Helvetica]
[/FONT] [FONT=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Helvetica]Above left: This was the plaque on display at the Auschwitz camp until 1989: note the "4 million" victims. Above right: This is the plaque currently on display at Auschwitz (2002) - note the suddenly reduced number of victims to 1.5 million - a casual reduction in the number of deaths by 2.5 million which never appeared in the American "free press"[/FONT]
[/FONT] [FONT=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Helvetica]Above left: This was the plaque on display at the Auschwitz camp until 1989: note the "4 million" victims. Above right: This is the plaque currently on display at Auschwitz (2002) - note the suddenly reduced number of victims to 1.5 million - a casual reduction in the number of deaths by 2.5 million which never appeared in the American "free press"[/FONT]
No wai!!!1 Rly? Isn't mutually exclusive.
Millions of Jews died in WWII. That's not in question. The human loss from WWII is mind blowing. But that doesn't change the fact that the (this) "holocaust" has been used as a political tool and that systematic annihilation on this grand scale has never been close to being proved. That's the issue. Though I do find it fascinating (while I'm being accused of making outlandish claims) that I am now a racist. It's a hard trap to stay out of clearly! I'd love to hear some back-up and reasoning on THAT.
Wow, totally cool man. You seen that Jon Stewart guy on TV as well? He's pretty funny!
Shalom.
Grandtheftcow
Grand Wizard of TK
Actually it's an upper estimate based on available evidence, but anyway.
The 1.1 million figure has been around since the fifties first published by Raul Hilberg's book The Destruction of the European Jews.
The four million number claimed by the Soviets and the plaque was not used in any estimates of total deaths as far as I can tell.
Your obvious Jew hatred is clearly evident for everyone to see. You might as well admit your allegiance and desire to be a part of the master race and start uncontrollably raising your right arm at your favourite Aryan leader already.
Unfortunately Colbert already claimed him as his Jewish friend so I'll have to find another one.
So anyway maybe it's time one of us actually tried to break down where and how many Jews were killed during the holocaust.
Extermination camps
Auschwitz - 1.1 million based on research by Franciszek Piper using train schedules and deportation records. This figure is accepted by the majority of scholars.
Belzec - 434,508 based on the Höfle telegram. A document declassified in 2000 providing the exact number of exterminations at the time.
Chelmno - 150,000 based on low estimates. high estimates are up to 300,000.
Majdanek - A lack of records regarding the camp has led to a wide range of estimates. Estimates generally range from 50,000 to 100,000.
Maly Trostenets - Little is known about the camp other than that there were no known survivors of it. Estimates range anywhere from 40,000 to as high as over 200,000.
Sobibór - Generally accepted death count of 250,000.
Treblinka - Generally estimated at 800,000. The Höfle telegram states 713,555 ten months before the closure of the camp.
Low estimate - 2,824,508
High estimate - 3,184,508
It should be noted that I excluded the Soviet numbers in my high estimates.
Einsatzgruppen: The Nazi death squads
Estimated to have eliminated 800,000 to 1.5 million Jews, mostly civilians. The lower estimate is based on official documents of the group, although it's stated that many of the killings went unreported. High estimate is based on testimonies from Einsatzgruppen members during the war crimes trials.
It's also estimated that at least half a million Jews had died in the other camps that weren't created specifically for extermination. However I haven't been able to find decent sources on the claimed figure.
Lastly are those who died in the ghetto's and unfortunately there's seemingly nothing concrete about those numbers. Figures seem to be derived from local population estimates before the war.
Final totals based on available information regarding deaths gives us a low estimate of 4,124,508 and a high estimate of 5,184,508
Numbers used were gathered from Wikipedia and reconfirmed through numerous holocaust related websites found through use of Google.