Concentration Camp Photos :::WARNING! GRAPHIC IMAGES!:::

[Donovan]

That was a typo on my part. I have no idea where that came from.

Fair enough. I had trouble deciphering that too.

So they're not important enough slaughters, or the victims don't have enough political clout? Thanks for proving my point.

What point were you trying to make? That any country or nation will invariably act in its own self-interest? Well, thanks for pointing that out, how about convincing us the sky is blue next?

Actually, no one gives a shit anymore.

Asking both your slacker friends if they care about a subject is not the same as a universal given. There are more things on heaven and earth than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

Again, the others weren't important enough, or didn't have enough press?

This is funny.

In the rules stated in our accords(I think NATO) following WWII one of the factors which would REQUIRE intervention by civilized allies would be to have a massacre labelled as "genocide." Once that term has been applied, we are obligated to act under our own terms dictated after the Holocaust, so that "This will never happen again."

This is why events like Rwanda, et al were carefully downplayed and described as "Ethnic cleansing," "sectarien violence," etc. Because our country and others did not want to be forced into an intervention.

That's a really lame explanation.


To my knowledge, there were no specific laws against holocaust denial in Germany except the one under which he was prosecuted (though I could be wrong), but even if there were he was prosecuted under one passed after the alledged crime took place. That's a democracy we helped put into place, btw.

Italics mine. Germany has the right to prosecute their own citizenry how they see fit, and your original rant was aimed at America for somehow being at fault. Nopt part of the original debate and frankly not our business. Germany is a current ally and we tend to cooperate with those. So what?

You're kidding.

No, probably not. You're just talking out of your ass.


Nor is it meant to. I'm not sure exactly what "perceived shortfalls in life" you're talking about or how you'd be in any position to observe that I have any, so we'll just mark this down as you talking out your ass again, ok?

Reread your own rambling diatribe against the jews brainwashing public school kids etc and try to find a coherent thought in that mess. I wasn't able to and had to dismiss it as the demented mumblings of an indoctrined fool. Sorry, that's your problem not mine.

I'll never tell.

Keep talking horseshit... I need some for my garden.

Personal insults notwithstanding, you should learn to admit defeat gracefully.

 

[Donovan]

Great. Then maybe you'll lose the "weak fools" hyperbole.


But the other side had plenty, for sure.


You stated that downplaying or denying a horrific loss of life, especially when deliberately and gleefully inflicted by other humans makes people a bit monstrous, then tried to tie that in with revisionism, as though if revisionists had acknowledged a deliberate and gleeful attempt at killing people and were downplaying it, saying it wasn't so bad because the death toll was lower in reality.

Your perception is not a hypothesis, as 'monstrous' is a subjective and relative term. I also agree with it, but it isn't applicable here, and it's only purpose here is as a red herring.


Sorry, but if you think you're winning, you aren't. Try an approach which isn't as condescending (Your "theory" in particular, not that TL;DR shite) and maybe it'll be acknowledged as contributory.


Tea?

I'll reply later to this. Gotta go.

 

[Starship Coyote]

It's really simple to me...denial (not certainly "questioning") but outright denial is the same hate that the Nazi Party practiced, reformulated and redigested. Think "intelligent design" as the way the Creationists rethought their kooky way of thinking.

It's kooky to think that what happened was not horrific, period. There was no excuse for that kind of deliberate hate, and the punchcards say 6,000,000 people were killed.

There is proof. The killers themselves left a trail that persists to this day.

Still waiting for the provenance on those pics, Jack.

 

[Starship Coyote]

What point were you trying to make? That any country or nation will invariably act in its own self-interest? Well, thanks for pointing that out, how about convincing us the sky is blue next?

Answer my question: what makes an alledged genocide against the Jews any more important than a deliberate genocide committed against the Armenians by the Turkish government?

Asking both your slacker friends if they care about a subject is not the same as a universal given. There are more things on heaven and earth than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

I have more than two slacker friends, thank you... there's a bevvy of them.

But the fact remains: the genocide of the Federal government against native populations of North America is taught in public schools, but the general reaction among students is "so what?"

In the rules stated in our accords(I think NATO) following WWII one of the factors which would REQUIRE intervention by civilized allies would be to have a massacre labelled as "genocide." Once that term has been applied, we are obligated to act under our own terms dictated after the Holocaust, so that "This will never happen again."

This is why events like Rwanda, et al were carefully downplayed and described as "Ethnic cleansing," "sectarien violence," etc. Because our country and others did not want to be forced into an intervention.

Strange, because if the stories of the Holocaust are even remotely true, then what was going on was textbook "ethnic cleansing" isn't it?

But that's beside the point. Essentially what you're saying is: the difference between mass murder as a state affair or an international crisis is one of politics. You're correct, and reinforces the idea that it's the Jews who determined the German operations against them in WWII as worthy of international attention. Dead niggers? Who cares. Dead Armenians? Ar-who? Dead Jews? The world must never forget!!! Yom Hashoah!!! Gefitevish!!! Kvetch until we puke!!!

Thanks for proving my point.

Italics mine. Germany has the right to prosecute their own citizenry how they see fit, and your original rant was aimed at America for somehow being at fault. Nopt part of the original debate and frankly not our business. Germany is a current ally and we tend to cooperate with those. So what?

You're correct... Germany does have the right to prosecute their countrymen as we see fit. That's not debated. What I debate is our turning him over to the process of repatriation to a country he obviously wanted nothing to do with for moral reasons... to a Hegelian-based democracy who makes the rules as they go along when we're (at least theoretically for now) a Locke-based Democracy which is supposed to be opposed to such behavior. Had it been deportation to a nation we despise, Iran for example, it wouldn't have happened I'm betting. The poor bastard was sacrificed on the political altar, and the US State Department was a swarm of moral cowards to do it, and anyone like you who excuses it is a moral coward.

Reread your own rambling diatribe against the jews brainwashing public school kids etc and try to find a coherent thought in that mess.

Well, why don't you educate me then?

I wasn't able to and had to dismiss it as the demented mumblings of an indoctrined fool. Sorry, that's your problem not mine.

Not my problem you don't like what I say. I don't type this stuff out to convince you or anyone... not into convincing people. I put it out as a stance. Don't like my stance? Fuck you with a meathook.

Personal insults notwithstanding, you should learn to admit defeat gracefully.

I acknowledge my betters. You aren't it. No limpwristed bitch who spends his time supporting his masters' bullshit is my better.

You come on back anytime.

 

[missmanners]

Actually, this is pretty much EXACTLY what they complain about. Chief arguments pro-revision say that there was no way six million died, and that the numbers were much closer to half a million based on population, statistics and probability. My hypothesis is that 500 thousand is no less monstrous a death toll than 6 million, regardless of the intent of the killers or the nationality of the victims.

You are right, 500k is a monstrous death toll. So if it was 500k, why not let history teach is as 500k? Why the over reaction when someone questions whats being tossed around as historical fact?

I heard an old lady do a 3 hour radio program (morning talk show, someone filling in for Glenn Beck a few months ago) because she was a camp survivor, and her story came across like swiss cheese. Conflicting stories, half of her "memories" started out with the words "I was told that.....", she said that the survivors of the camp she was in were dying at the rate of 1000 a day in the hands of the British (is that true? I never heard that one before)... one minute her entire family was gassed, the next she lived with her father and Aunt until she got married.

Now, no one expects an old lady to remember every detail of a tramautic experience that happened 60 years ago, but her memories are what is being taught as HISTORY.... as fact. And what happens if someone questions her story? They would imediatly be shouted down as an anti-semite holocaust denier.

I think what happened to Jews in Europe was despicable. I think what happened to people in the camps was beyond despicable. And if you don't want it to ever happen again, then hang on to your guns.... in fact buy more guns.

Now tell me why every shred of evidence surrounding that time in history shouldn't be examined and why every fairy tale masquerading as historical fact shouldn't be questioned.


mm

 

[jack]

I'm in full agreement there. Those folks kept meticulous records, all of which are available.

 

[Starship Coyote]

I'm in full agreement there. Those folks kept meticulous records, all of which are available.

So tell me then what camp those pics were taken in, and a date if possible.

 

[jack]

The first two are of the same gentleman, from Bergen-Belsen in either 40 or 41. That's not a bomb. You can see in the second photo the discoloration of the hands before removal and the garrotting took hours.

No big deal, he was smiling when he died, as you see. I'm sure this was all very carefully crafted after the fact to perpetrate something that DIDN'T happen at all during the period.

Want to see the twins?

 

[jack]

My uncle moled three different camps. Bergen-Belsen Auschwitz and Buchenwald, supposedly.

He's probably lying, and just hid somewhere, which was how he's still alive with a tattoo and all.

If only 500,000 died, why do many of these tats have seven digits?

 

[jack]

by the way, the tats match the punchcards.

 

[jack]

The punchcards say 6,000,000, that is...there are almost 10 million cards.

 

[Starship Coyote]

Bergen-Belsen was established in 1942. Try again. I'll be back later.

 

[jack]

Bergen Belsen was established in 39 darling. The "42" your referring to is actually 43 and is known the Bergen Belsen "Transit Center" and in 45 the DP camp. The labor camp was established outside of saxony very quietly in 39. was an awesome killing machine.

Talk to you soon. Enjoy your lunch.

 

[jack]

Bergen-Belsen was a concentration camp near Hanover in northwest Germany, located between the villages of Bergen and Belsen. Built in 1940, it was a prisoner-of-war camp for French and Belgium prisoners. In 1941, it was renamed Stalag 311 and housed about 20,000 Russian prisoners.

The camp changed its name to Bergen-Belsen and was converted into a concentration camp in 1943. Jews with foreign passports were kept there to be exchanged for German nationals imprisoned abroad, although very few exchanges were made. About 200 Jews were allowed to immigrate to Palestine and about 1,500 Hungarian Jews were allowed to immigrate to Switzerland, both took place under the rubric of exchanges for German nationals.

Bergen-Belsen mainly served as a holding camp for the Jewish prisoners. The camp was divided into eight sections, a detention camp, two women’s camps, a special camp, neutrals camps, "star" camp (mainly Dutch prisoners who wore a Star of David on their clothing instead of the camp uniform), Hungarian camp and a tent camp. It was designed to hold 10,000 prisoners, however, by the war’s end more than 60,000 prisoners were detained there, due to the large numbers of those evacuated from Auschwitz and other camps from the East. Tens of thousands of prisoners from other camps came to Bergen-Belsen after agonizing death marches.

 

[jack]

While Bergen-Belsen contained no gas chambers, more than 35,000 people died of starvation, overwork, disease, brutality and sadistic medical experiments. By April 1945, more than 60,000 prisoners were incarcerated in Belsen in two camps located 1.5 miles apart. Camp No. 2 was opened only a few weeks before the liberation on the site of a military hospital and barracks.

 

[Starship Coyote]

1942. Your information is bogus.

 

[The Question]

The punchcards say 6,000,000, that is...there are almost 10 million cards.

There are many more millions of DMV records in the United States; their mere existence doesn't indicate how many of the drivers were victims of homicide.

 

[The Question]

My uncle moled three different camps. Bergen-Belsen Auschwitz and Buchenwald, supposedly.

He's probably lying, and just hid somewhere, which was how he's still alive with a tattoo and all.

Or he heard the same propaganda as everyone else and plugged what he actually saw into the propaganda he had already swallowed.

If only 500,000 died, why do many of these tats have seven digits?

Because the tattooed number might indicate something more complex than just, "Prisoner Number xxx."

 

[The Question]

It's really simple to me...denial (not certainly "questioning") but outright denial is the same hate that the Nazi Party practiced, reformulated and redigested.

Really. "I don't believe it happened." equals, "I think it ought to happen."? How's that work? Here's what I read, though:

"Saying it didn't happen is the same kind of hate that allowed it to happen!" equals, "WE WANT OUR VICTIM CARD YOU CAN'T TAKE OUR VICTIM CARD AWAY FROM US GIVE US BACK OUR VICTIM CAAAAAARRRRRRDWAAAAAAHHHAAAAAHHHAAAAAAAAHHHHH!!!"

Suck it up.

 

[Donovan]

Answer my question: what makes an alledged genocide against the Jews any more important than a deliberate genocide committed against the Armenians by the Turkish government?

I have already done so. As Americans, our personal history's shining moment of glory was when we "won the war" and saved the captive Jews. Therefore, we crow about it every chance we get.

But the fact remains: the genocide of the Federal government against native populations of North America is taught in public schools, but the general reaction among students is "so what?"

Prove this or drop it. Because your personal experience makes you think no one cares about native affairs is not proof. Besides which, the concept of "no one caring" directly contradicts the idea that these same students can be successfully brainwashed by your imaginary Jew agenda in public schools. Hoisted by your own petard, as it were.

Strange, because if the stories of the Holocaust are even remotely true, then what was going on was textbook "ethnic cleansing" isn't it?

But that's beside the point. Essentially what you're saying is: the difference between mass murder as a state affair or an international crisis is one of politics. You're correct, and reinforces the idea that it's the Jews who determined the German operations against them in WWII as worthy of international attention. Dead niggers? Who cares. Dead Armenians? Ar-who? Dead Jews? The world must never forget!!! Yom Hashoah!!! Gefitevish!!! Kvetch until we puke!!!

Thanks for proving my point.

If I inadvertantly proved anything for you, it was because you were not capable of doing it. I proved only that in the language of mass murder, our country and others refuse to label new massacres with the term genocide because that TERM would require us to act. Purely a position of governmental convenience.

You're correct... Germany does have the right to prosecute their countrymen as we see fit. That's not debated. What I debate is our turning him over to the process of repatriation to a country he obviously wanted nothing to do with for moral reasons... to a Hegelian-based democracy who makes the rules as they go along when we're (at least theoretically for now) a Locke-based Democracy which is supposed to be opposed to such behavior. Had it been deportation to a nation we despise, Iran for example, it wouldn't have happened I'm betting. The poor bastard was sacrificed on the political altar, and the US State Department was a swarm of moral cowards to do it, and anyone like you who excuses it is a moral coward.

Circular logic, since naturally we wouldn't assist a non-ally with extradition. That is irrelevant to the fact that they ARE allies, he broke THIER laws, and we sent him home. People are sacrificed to the political machine all the time, in our country and abroad. Your point?








For someone who is not out to convince anything to anyone, you sure spend a lot of time trying to cloud the issues here. I notice when logic begins to confound you you whip right into personal insults. If being accused of limp-wristed bitchery were at all pertinent to your ridiculous and ill-informed idea that "The jews control the schools" I'd probably answer it more fully. As it is, you're becoming a bore. I answered the legitimate points of debate you try to make, but the rest is a trifle. Whether or not I am your better is not for you or me to decide, but I expect to answer becomes clear to people capable of independent thought. Probably around the point you imply that you're correct because you want to fuck me with a meathook...