Download my fucking video

[Kerb Crawler]

Seperate the art from the artist. This is imperative. You know why MJ fans get such a bad rap? Because most of them are complete twats, thats why. Yes, they are and I am the first one to say it. There is only so many pictures of MJ you can see in peoples sigs with animated love hearts surrounding him before you want to kill yourself. Add to that the personality I have. I am not especially sensitive to MJ bashing. I have more than one comedy video of MJ being poked endless fun at. Some of it is great, the South Park episode with Mr Jefferson was the best episode they ever did IMO.

But there are MANY, MANY, MANY fans that cry and scream and create over any critisicm of the man. These people are not me and I refuse to be lumped into the same category as them. Its all about the art man. Do I think MJ is innocent? Yes, I do but even if I despised him and had done as much research as I have done I would be forced to come to the same conclusion. Is he insane? Yes, quite.

This is all irrelevant to me though. Its all about the stage show, I could care less about anything else. I hate all his save the children songs and am highly critical of some of his later performances especially during HIStory going as far as calling them complete bollocks.

That said it makes no difference. MJ is the man, he is so skilled its rediculous. Yeah, its highly publicized how good he is and hes a musical genius and blah blah blah but they are still selling him short. I could go on for a long time explaing why he is the greatest performer of all time and the best fluid mover and dancer ever to be captured on film but I can't be bothered.

People hate him now, he is a joke to people in everyday conversation. Thats fine, it doesn't change what he has achieved. It doesn't change the fact that MTV and all the pop princes and princesses blatantly plagarise him. He is guilty of being out of touch and a bit odd. He has made some regrettable mistakes but that doesn't make him a pedophile (its just stupid) and it doesn't mean that we should crucify the poor man. He is a humanitarian. He has done with his money what few to none do. He is in the guiness book of Records for being the entertainer to donate the most amount of money to charity. Something to the tune of half a billion. What a demon.

Yeah, I'm sure the thousands of children who are not dead becase he walks this earth really care that he has had plastic surgery.

Usher and Timberlake? Give me a freaking break.

Thanks for the honest response. That you're a fan, and respect the artist, goes without saying. I can appreciate his accomplishments and presence for the same reasons you've cited. I was just curious your stance on some of the other aspects of the performer/personality.

We love building them up... and then tearing them down.

 

[proteon]

Yeah but some ask for it more than others.

Let the record show I didn't give Michael Jackson vitiligo nor did I botch any of his surgeries.

 

[Kerb Crawler]

Well, I don't know about "ask" for it. But the higher they climb, the farther they fall, the harder they hit.

Being weird and eccentric is not a crime unto itself, but Jacko was better off when his personal life wasn't so PUBLIC. It should've been all about the art, but our society wants it, and they WANT IT ALL.

And POP eats itself.

 

[Mentalist]

The absolute apex of Michael Jackson's career came when he performed Billie Jean on the Motown awards (82?) and gave the world the moonwalk.

The Motown 25th anniversary. 1983.

think it was during the late 80's that he began to believe his press and set his sights higher and crazier (tearing his clothes off at the end of that video where he destroys the car - and the unbeleivable high speed reverse his PR people did after the video aired.)

I will never understand the aversion to the Panther sequence at the end of Black & White which was 95 btw. That sequence was totally off the hook. His abilty was showcased in that video and it ruled. Wow he ripped his shirt. So? I just dont understand it. Whats the big deal?

The guy who wore leotards over his jumpsuit and grabbed his crotch screaming was a parody of the clean cut young black kid who represented the hope of the 80's shuffling down the illuminate but wasteland sidewalk in Billie Jean.

I'm not going to even try and defend the gold thingy he wore on the Dangerous Tour. Because, well, yeah, I hate it. That said he WAS a better dancer then than when he was black. Not taking away from the Motown show because Rolling Stone magazine voted it in the top three greatest performances ever but his moonwalk sucked and he ballsed up snapping up onto his toes. These are things that just never happened after motown, he became better and better. Aesthetically people may prefer black mike or white mike. He did have vitiligo though, this is proven, he didn't turn white on purpose, this was incredibly traumatic for him.

In 88 he made Smooth Criminal which is just the best music video ever. His touch was sublime, he laid that shit down and it is unsurpassable.

Then the Bad Tour was just a tour de force, this is not a step backwards in any book of mine.

 

[Mentalist]

Let the record show I didn't give Michael Jackson vitiligo nor did I botch any of his surgeries.

Neither did Michael

 

[proteon]

Being weird and eccentric isn't a crime. Being weird and eccentric and insanely wealthy with a gaggle of assfucks around you who would yes you to death if you wanted to have scales sewn into your skin kinda equals asking for it to me.

 

[Kerb Crawler]

In many ways, I don't think Michael Jackson had the tools necessary to keep his best financial interests at heart. He's not the first to have it happen to him.

Naivety, ignorance, whatever, some artists really DO just want to create. The freedom and purity of expression often exclude real-world concerns.

 

[Kerb Crawler]

And being out of touch doens't help. This lifestyle was pretty much all he knew. I don't think Joseph made sure MJ was taking fiscal responsibility courses, and you can be damn sure that those around only wanted him concentrating on being MJ - and they'd take advantage and suck on his insanely wealthy vitiligo teat all the while.

 

[Mentalist]

Being weird and eccentric isn't a crime. Being weird and eccentric and insanely wealthy with a gaggle of assfucks around you who would yes you to death if you wanted to have scales sewn into your skin kinda equals asking for it to me.

Once again, I agree with you, totally. I am not MJ's apologist, really, it may seem that way but I'm not. We are all given one lifetime to do what we are going to do. Some people do nothing, some people do a lot. MJ did a lot and he did it very, very, well. This is to be applauded. Many of his creative choices I dont like and many of his personal decisions have me shaking my head but I don't hate him just because TV tells me too. I mean it comes down to a few fundemental things. I have been a fan since I was six. I am also very into a huge amount of other stuff. I think my scope of interests have been pretty well documented on this site. MJ is an aspect of my fandom, he isn't the be all end all though. When it comes to MJ I have lots of people who are on the same wavelength as me. Not one day goes by when I dont fire up MSN and have Oli shouting at me from Australia about the latest Bad tour clip he found. This is ONE of my hobbies. Collecting MJ videos. I have 30gb of MJ videos, 25 concerts, every music video 100's of individual performances from every era all the Jackson Five stuff ect.

I really don't care about what MJ wears about the house or eats for breakfast. The world seems to lap this info up ad infinitum for some reason where me here the fan to end all fandom could care less.

New show, song, performance and you have my undivided attention but his personal life is not something I care that much about. I mean, ok, I have all his interviews and I have read his autobiography ect but you get what I'm saying.

It's just not cool to like MJ anymore. And to be totally and brutally honest I am pretty much sure his career is over. The energy it takes to perform a two hour set MJ style has left him methinks.

But I wouldn't write him off either. he absolutly DESTROYED Usher at the 30th Anniversary. Both started to pop lock on stage and MJ left Usher in a dust cloud.

Heh.

 

[proteon]

I will never understand the aversion to the Panther sequence at the end of Black & White which was 95 btw. That sequence was totally off the hook. His ability was showcased in that video and it ruled. Wow he ripped his shirt. So? I just don’t understand it. What’s the big deal?

You tell me. It was HIS Pr people who did the instant backpeddling not me. I didn't pull the video. I do however recall MJ broadcasting a sincere and heartfelt apology over the bit - you’ll know what year that was if it really happened.

I'm not going to even try and defend the gold thingy he wore on the Dangerous Tour. Because, well, yeah, I hate it. That said he WAS a better dancer then than when he was black

No he wasn't. He was more spastic and less memorable and it was then that he began the repetitious three or four classic moves (the crotch grab – the point).

Not taking away from the Motown show because Rolling Stone magazine voted it in the top three greatest performances ever but his moonwalk sucked and he ballsed up snapping up onto his toes.

Jesus Christ dude. I was fucking 14 years old when the Motown anniversary special aired - I was alive and saw it with my own eyes. Nay, we TAPED it and I watched it repeatedly. The World stood fucking stock still and was never the same as people tried for weeks to figure out how he’s “walked frontwards but slid backwards.†As a rabid MJ fan I’m a bit perplexed by the speed with which you pave over my personal experiences with excerpts from an admittedly American magazine. I would think that a truly interested fan would factor in the relayed experiences of prior fans. Guess not.

Last but not least Michael Jackson in the end was the only person who could give the “go ahead†for the 114th bit of surgery on his nose. In this respect I blame him for his frightening appearance.

 

[Mentalist]

And being out of touch doens't help. This lifestyle was pretty much all he knew. I don't think Joseph made sure MJ was taking fiscal responsibility courses, and you can be damn sure that those around only wanted him concentrating on being MJ - and they'd take advantage and suck on his insanely wealthy vitiligo teat all the while.

Michael Jackson is not anywhere near poor. His wealth is vast, still. He is a shrewd buisness man actually. The news reports about him being skint were absolutley hilarious.

 

[proteon]

As far as "it's just not cool to like MJ anymore" I'll agree with you. There are only TWO cool ways to regard him:

Bash him incessantly

Defend him rabidly at the expense of alienating fans

 

[Mentalist]

You tell me. It was HIS Pr people who did the instant backpeddling not me. I didn't pull the video. I do however recall MJ broadcasting a sincere and heartfelt apology over the bit - you’ll know what year that was if it really happened.

Yes it did happen and it wasn't over him ripping his shirt. It was over the racist graffiti on the car "go home nigga" I think was one and a shwastika was another. Mj then takes acrowbar after a nicely crafted spin and lays into the car. People were up in arms over the seeming violence and complete 180 on his usual M.O.

Remember MJ released a statment explicilty saying that he was against the occult when Thriller aired because people bitched over that as well.

No he wasn't. He was more spastic and less memorable and it was then that he began the repetitious three or four classic moves (the crotch grab – the point).

This is simply not even close to correct.

Jesus Christ dude. I was fucking 14 years old when the Motown anniversary special aired - I was alive and saw it with my own eyes. Nay, we TAPED it and I watched it repeatedly. The World stood fucking stock still and was never the same as people tried for weeks to figure out how he’s “walked frontwards but slid backwards.†As a rabid MJ fan I’m a bit perplexed by the speed with which you pave over my personal experiences with excerpts from an admittedly American magazine. I would think that a truly interested fan would factor in the relayed experiences of prior fans. Guess not.

Yes, I love the Motown 25, It was Michaels coronation ect.. Michael Jackson himself is critical of that performance. He cried for christ sake when he came off stage becase he wasn't happy with his performance. I ma not discussing the impact that Motown had. It for all intensive purposes gave birth to the star Michael Jackson and nothing was ever the same after that moment. I am saying that he improved greatly in just one year after the Motown. You compare a moonwalk from Motown to a Moonwalk from Victory, Bad, Dangerous, HIStory. That was what I was saying. He did actualluy miss the toes as well but it still doesn't matter because Motown was amazing. Christ, relax, I'm not George Lucas, I'm not trying to rape your childhood memories.

Oh and people trying to Moonwalk makes me laugh. They all suck. It takes more than a few weeks to perfect the moves MJ does. sure you can Moonwalk in a few weeks if you stick at it (I can't NOT moonwalk now) but perfecting it to look right takes ages. Even for MJ. Hell, I am totally off the hook but I have been doing this for 10 years.

Last but not least Michael Jackson in the end was the only person who could give the “go ahead†for the 114th bit of surgery on his nose. In this respect I blame him for his frightening appearance.

He hasn't had as much surgery as you would imagine. Before you laugh in my face I will add that I am not blind and he is stupid. He should have stopped after Thriller. That was a great nose job. But no, he continued and continued. But a lot of that was trying to fix the one that went wrong in the first place. And Michael Jackson is an unstable emotional individual. His mental health is not tip top and since none of us have been subjected to what he has we can't say that much.

 

[proteon]

I'm not laughing in your face. I'm fairly well amazed at the ease with which you've dismissed everything I've relayed including but not limited to my own personal experiences.

You win Menty. I concede. I hope for your sake that 20 years from now your not on the receiving end of this argument with someone who, having not even been born during the era in question, easily refutes your first hand accounts as "not even close."

Thanks for setting me up to be corrected against your historical evidence.

 

[Mentalist]

One little MJ video.. and look what happens.

 

[proteon]

Accept responsibility for your rabies brother.

 

[Kerb Crawler]

Controversial; topical.

Your video killed, though.

 

[Mentalist]

I'm not laughing in your face. I'm fairly well amazed at the ease with which you've dismissed everything I've relayed including but not limited to my own personal experiences.

What did you relay? That Motown ruled? Yeah, tell me something I don't know. I can count the beats out to each move he does on Motown. I would say that my knowledge of that performance is far in excess of yours even if you were watching it when it occured and I was busy being born. I have read and listened to his recounts of Motown 25. I know that he was in his kitchen the night before and he came up with every move before hand and had never even practiced Billie Jean before for a live show. What is the point you're trying to make?

You win Menty. I concede. I hope for your sake that 20 years from now your not on the receiving end of this argument with someone who, having not even been born during the era in question, easily refutes your first hand accounts as "not even close."

Ahh, I see. You mean my writing off this excerpt as crap:

No he wasn't. He was more spastic and less memorable and it was then that he began the repetitious three or four classic moves (the crotch grab – the point).

This is not even close. Look, I have seen a lot more live MJ than you. I have studied his moves his technique and his style. He can tap dance he can pop-lock he can tick, wave, glide and slide. He is an amazing dancer. His ABILTY as a dancer was actually more refined during History in 97' slower, yes but his moves were smoother and his technique was better. Getting into an argument that MJ was not as good a dancer post Motown is rediculous because as I said before.. You're not even close to correct on this one.

The Electric Boogaloos think he is the shit and so do I. There you go.

 

[proteon]

Meh

 

[Mentalist]

Controversial; topical.

Your video killed, though.

Thank you. Its actually not that special. It was a quick project I put together because someone I know liked the remix. I will post Xscape, my Magnum Opus which is just way way in advance of this little thing.