IN HONOR OF DEAD cupcakeER DAY

[The Question]

Here's apoint to ponder: attributing negative characteristics to entire groups of people is racism. Calling Mexicans "lazy and thieving" for example.

And if members of a given group display a given characteristic frequently enough, over a long enough timeframe and across a sufficient number of different environments, then not recognizing the prevalence of that negative characteristic within the group is the very definition of ignorant.

Disregard for U.S. law is a defining characteristic, for example, of illegal aliens from Mexico. It is something that entire group displays. Thievery is another negative trait displayed by Mexicans (and Americans of Mexican origin, you will note the distinction) frequently enough and long enough for it to have become associated with the group.

Guess what, dickweed? That's the group's fault. They originated the stereotype themselves, and I have no remorse whatsoever for hating the stereotype and scorning any individual who elects to personify it.

 

[Cranky Bastard]

You could also correctly term Mexicans as habitual litterers.

In Mexico, the state pays certain civil servants to pick up trash discarded by pedestrians. Trash cans not necessary. It is a national habit.

When they come here, they litter, being ignorant of American laws.

"Mexicans litter." Racist? Or the truth?

 

[Wisdom]

And if members of a given group display a given characteristic frequently enough, over a long enough timeframe and across a sufficient number of different environments, then not recognizing the prevalence of that negative characteristic within the group is the very definition of ignorant.

Disregard for U.S. law is a defining characteristic, for example, of illegal aliens from Mexico. It is something that entire group displays. Thievery is another negative trait displayed by Mexicans (and Americans of Mexican origin, you will note the distinction) frequently enough and long enough for it to have become associated with the group.

Guess what, dickweed? That's the group's fault. They originated the stereotype themselves, and I have no remorse whatsoever for hating the stereotype and scorning any individual who elects to personify it.

I'm a "dickweed"?

So you contend that referring to Mexicans as "lazy" isn't racist because Mexicans are in fact lazy. Can this be demonstrated? On average, Mexicans are lazier than the average person? How would you begin to demonstrate this?

Obviously this is a stereotype originating in historical circumstances different than today. Yet you assume it's true, because it's convenient.

And because you are a racist.

 

[Wisdom]

You could also correctly term Mexicans as habitual litterers.

In Mexico, the state pays certain civil servants to pick up trash discarded by pedestrians. Trash cans not necessary. It is a national habit.

When they come here, they litter, being ignorant of American laws.

"Mexicans litter." Racist? Or the truth?

Actually it depends on your intentions and the context in which you say "Mexicans litter."

 

[Cranky Bastard]

Actually it depends on your intentions and the context in which you say "Mexicans litter."

Context... hmmm a serious answer from you. Probably deserves an equally serious reply.

In accordance with today's politically correct groupthink, any mention of race in relation to a derogatory observation is termed racism. No matter the truth.

So, in this case, I can't say I agree that context matters. While it might sound good to say context matters on the surface, anyone saying what I just did would be pilloried by the body-public into oblivion.

 

[Wisdom]

Context... hmmm a serious answer from you. Probably deserves an equally serious reply.

In accordance with today's politically correct groupthink, any mention of race in relation to a derogatory observation is termed racism. No matter the truth.

So, in this case, I can't say I agree that context matters. While it might sound good to say context matters on the surface, anyone saying what I just did would be pilloried by the body-public into oblivion.

I disagree. For example, if you were explaining why a Mexican neighborhood had more litter than another neighborhood, "Mexicans litter" would be a factual explanation.

If you were attempting to describe the characteristics of Mexicans in general, "They speak Spanish, tend to be shorter than Americans, they litter" it would be reasonable to infer that you were intending to describe them as a group of people who were excessivley dirty.

Moreover, in the former case intention matters too. If your explanation is that in Mexico, a governement practice causes littering, then it's not racist. But if you're describing them as inherent litterbugs, it is racist. It would be hard for your interlocutor to understand what you meant without an accompanying explanation.

 

[Cranky Bastard]

Hmm. Wisdom. How fine a hair are we trying to split here? I challenge you to say "Mexicans litter" in any public format and not be branded a racist.

 

[Wisdom]

Hmm. Wisdom. How fine a hair are we trying to split here? I challenge you to say "Mexicans litter" in any public format and not be branded a racist.

That gets at my point. Why would one want to say such a thing in any public forum?

 

[Wisdom]

I think I could safely say:

exicans are habitual litterers.
In Mexico, the state pays certain civil servants to pick up trash discarded by pedestrians. Trash cans not necessary. It is a national habit.

When they come here, they litter, being ignorant of American laws.

at a city council discussion on streetcleaning policy and not be branded a racist.

 

[The Question]

That gets at my point. Why would one want to say such a thing in any public forum?

If it's relevant and it's the truth, one has a responsibility to speak it. The only reason a man would avoid speaking the truth when it's relevant is out of fear. Of course, refusing to acknowledge that such statements are occasionally relevant is simply another flavor of the same cowardice.

 

[The Question]

If you were attempting to describe the characteristics of Mexicans in general, "They speak Spanish, tend to be shorter than Americans, they litter" it would be reasonable to infer that you were intending to describe them as a group of people who were excessivley dirty.

If each of those claims is correct, then the conclusion -- however unpopular -- must be correct, as well. Fuck 'nice', just be right.

 

[The Question]

So you contend that referring to Mexicans as "lazy" isn't racist because Mexicans are in fact lazy. Can this be demonstrated? On average, Mexicans are lazier than the average person? How would you begin to demonstrate this?

Obviously this is a stereotype originating in historical circumstances different than today. Yet you assume it's true, because it's convenient.

Wrong. I assume it's true because it's been true consistently long enough and with enough reach to become an identifying feature of the culture. I also assume it's true because in 90% of encounters I have personally had with representatives of that culture, that feature has been present.

There are, of course, exceptions to the rule; exceptions, however, do not invalidate the rule.

And because you are a racist.

You're putting the cart before the horse; I don't observe negative characteristics of various cultures because I am a racist. I am labeled a 'racist' because I remark on these negative characteristics when I observe them, rather than turning an ignorant eye to them and keeping silent.

 

[Wisdom]

If it's relevant and it's the truth, one has a responsibility to speak it. The only reason a man would avoid speaking the truth when it's relevant is out of fear. Of course, refusing to acknowledge that such statements are occasionally relevant is simply another flavor of the same cowardice.

Relevance is the key. When would the statement in question be relevant? I provided a limited example.

 

[Wisdom]

Wrong. I assume it's true because it's been true consistently long enough and with enough reach to become an identifying feature of the culture. I also assume it's true because in 90% of encounters I have personally had with representatives of that culture, that feature has been present.

Your assumption is an act of laziness.

 

[The Question]

^^God, you're boring. Entertain me or shut up.

 

[Wisdom]

quoth the badly drubbed internet crackpot whipping boy

 

[Atlas_Collins]

I suggest this Wisdom pussy download and read the section on "racism" in this article starting on page 64:

http://jtl.org/auster/PNS.pdf


Of course, being a liberal jagoff, he's probably too lazy and self-righteously smug to bother.

I also invite Mentalist to read this article and comment on it, as it answers his "challenge" with his repeated posting of the dictionary definition of "racism".

I could point out that most on this board need to read Orwell's Animal Farm , but they'd probably just think it was a children's story about farm animals.

 

[Wisdom]

Why would I bother reading your racist propaganda? I don't have any respect for you or your intellect, and have no wish to understand how you reached your egregious worldview. If you would like me to recommend some reading to help you become slightly less of a barbarian, I would be glad to oblige.

 

[Starship Coyote]

Why would I bother reading your racist propaganda? I don't have any respect for you or your intellect, and have no wish to understand how you reached your egregious worldview. If you would like me to recommend some reading to help you become slightly less of a barbarian, I would be glad to oblige.

Let me take a wild guess here: you're a queer jewish cupcakeer. Am I close?

 

[Wisdom]

Oh noes! naughty words on the internets!

Let me guess: you spend your unemployment check on Olympia and drink it while you watch CourtTV and Fox News all day.