CaptainWacky
I want to smell dark matter
Characters in this show will have hands, confirmed: https://www.polygon.com/22915948/lord-of-the-rings-of-power-characters-posters
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Lord of the Rings tv show
- Thread starter CaptainWacky
- Start date
CaptainWacky
I want to smell dark matter
Big article with photos and plot details: https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2022/02/amazon-the-rings-of-power-series-first-look
Oh they're just going to cheat.
Oh they're just going to cheat.
It's going to look amazing because there is some wonderful talent out there when it comes to cinematography and Jackson gave them a blueprint of how to film middle-earth and they have a bazillion dollars but it's going to fucking suck otherwise. Yes, this is horrible premature declarations but I believe it. I have zero faith that this is going to expand on Tolkien's mythology in any way that does justice to the source material.
CaptainWacky
I want to smell dark matter
Elrond looks like a dweeb.
CaptainWacky
I want to smell dark matter
CaptainWacky
I want to smell dark matter
It definitely looks and sounds amazing, and is obviously trying to make you remember those movies you loved. BUT THEY'LL FUCK UP THE LORE, WON'T THEY. Why does it even need hobbits in it? The whole point of hobbits is they're never involved in anything interesting.
CaptainWacky
I want to smell dark matter
Yet another trailer, still no memorable dialogue.
CaptainWacky
I want to smell dark matter
Two episodes tomorrow. I'm sure it will be an impressive looking show and maybe it will be a fun fantasy show. Will it give me the Tolkien feels that only his writing can? Well, no; how could it?
The most expensive fan-fiction ever. Let's be honest, there is zero chance the screenwriters for Star Trek: Beyond are going to meet the levels required but I'm hoping the show isn't a disaster. I'm trying not to be an elitist before I even watch it but It's going to be tough.
I'm looking forward to finding out tomorrow though.
MODMAN
New member
For what it's worth - I'm a big fan of Jackson's original trilogy; haven't read the books and know jack about the appendices / Silmarillion. Watched with mother and partner (both fans of the movies) with neutral expectations. I think we all drew similar conclusions.
Visuals - impressive. Score - ditto. Story - hmm. Some yes, some meh.
Dialogue - shoot me.
There's something missing. The way Jackson wove Tolkien's formal prose into film has not been replicated here. It feels stilted and laboured, rather than effortless. It lacks charm - save for Lenny Henry and Nori the Harfoot.
I would say out of the story threads introduced so far, my interest from most to least would be:
- Harfoots and Gandalf (or whoever the magic guy that talks to insects is).
- Elf chap, village woman & son.
- Bit of a gap, then Galadriel. Need to see a bit of sparkle here at some stage considering she's the lynchpin to this story.
- And finally Elrond and Dwarves. Cheesy and uninteresting.
The Elves in contrast to the rougher elements of Middle Earth worked in the movies; as central players front and centre - doesn't seem so appealing. All a bit dry and stuffy.
There's potential I guess. It's been reported that Bezos wanted his own Game of Thrones. Based on first impressions, I don't think there's much chance of this approaching GoT stratospheric pop culture status.
Visuals - impressive. Score - ditto. Story - hmm. Some yes, some meh.
Dialogue - shoot me.
There's something missing. The way Jackson wove Tolkien's formal prose into film has not been replicated here. It feels stilted and laboured, rather than effortless. It lacks charm - save for Lenny Henry and Nori the Harfoot.
I would say out of the story threads introduced so far, my interest from most to least would be:
- Harfoots and Gandalf (or whoever the magic guy that talks to insects is).
- Elf chap, village woman & son.
- Bit of a gap, then Galadriel. Need to see a bit of sparkle here at some stage considering she's the lynchpin to this story.
- And finally Elrond and Dwarves. Cheesy and uninteresting.
The Elves in contrast to the rougher elements of Middle Earth worked in the movies; as central players front and centre - doesn't seem so appealing. All a bit dry and stuffy.
There's potential I guess. It's been reported that Bezos wanted his own Game of Thrones. Based on first impressions, I don't think there's much chance of this approaching GoT stratospheric pop culture status.
CaptainWacky
I want to smell dark matter
I watched the two episodes. Visually, yeah, very good. Obviously as it's the most expensive thing ever made (not just tv show, literally the most expensive thing to ever exist in the history of humanity.) And this is important since something like this really needs to look as good as humanly possible to make you believe you're in another world. Other than a couple of shots (Galadriel and the elves in the ship) everything felt believable, with Khazad-Dum looking particularly impressive.
Howard Shore's opening theme didn't seem memorable which was disappointing.
As I predicted I wasn't impessed by the dialogue. It was all fine, functional enough, got the job done...but where's the poetry? Where's the bombast? Even though the Jackson movies dumbed things down to a degree you still got lines that evoked a certain fanastic feel, especially when delivered by the likes of Ian McKellen, Hugo Weaving and Cate Blanchett. I can't imagine quoting anything from this?
Galadriel's actress did seem quite good. Attempting to swim back to Middle Earth from Valinor was pretty ridiculous!
The hobbits felt more like Irish travellers than rustic English people? But the actress playing the main hobbit girl was really good. So it kind of worked.
I feel like they'll try to at least keep continuity with the Jackson films so surely the mysterious guy can't be Gandalf? Him arriving in the Second Age would be a major change and would mean he was present for the Battle of the Last Alliance and totally failed to get Isildur to destroy the ring. So I'm thinking it's really Sauron and they're trying to make us think it's Gandalf...
I don't know it wasn't bad but I didn't love it.
It's not the intro. It literally says "Entertainment Weekly" in the bottom corner (a lot of people were fooled by it, somehow.)
Howard Shore's opening theme didn't seem memorable which was disappointing.
As I predicted I wasn't impessed by the dialogue. It was all fine, functional enough, got the job done...but where's the poetry? Where's the bombast? Even though the Jackson movies dumbed things down to a degree you still got lines that evoked a certain fanastic feel, especially when delivered by the likes of Ian McKellen, Hugo Weaving and Cate Blanchett. I can't imagine quoting anything from this?
Galadriel's actress did seem quite good. Attempting to swim back to Middle Earth from Valinor was pretty ridiculous!
The hobbits felt more like Irish travellers than rustic English people? But the actress playing the main hobbit girl was really good. So it kind of worked.
I feel like they'll try to at least keep continuity with the Jackson films so surely the mysterious guy can't be Gandalf? Him arriving in the Second Age would be a major change and would mean he was present for the Battle of the Last Alliance and totally failed to get Isildur to destroy the ring. So I'm thinking it's really Sauron and they're trying to make us think it's Gandalf...
I don't know it wasn't bad but I didn't love it.
It's not the intro. It literally says "Entertainment Weekly" in the bottom corner (a lot of people were fooled by it, somehow.)
I have watched both episodes. Eh. I mean, everyone has already said that it looks good. It should after what they spent, although outside of some vista and battle shots the original LotR trilogy still looks better. It's all a bit too clean here. Khazad-dûm did look cool though.
But 2 hours in and I don't care that much? Galadriel isn't really that interesting to me yet. Warrior Galadriel I'm fine, with. Tolkien himself describes her as "Amazonian" in this era but she just seems kind of generic so far. Lots of staring into the middle distance with a serious face is not enough for me to care about your main character, Galadriel or not. Generic unfortunately covers a lot of my criticism for the first two hours. In fact, that was my problem with all the elves. They were all missing that certain ethereal quality.
The Harfoots are fine, I didn't mind them. I've already decided I'm not going to get bogged down and super picky (unless it's really egregious) with the original creations the showrunners are inserting and the shuffling around and reimagining of a race like the Harfoots in the second age, because it's already established they are going to have to fill out this 50 hours somehow, so if that was to be a dealbreaker it's over before its started. So this I didn't mind too much and Nori was a character that I felt I wanted to root for straight away so good job there.
There were some really cool shots but the pacing was off and the dialogue was not good. It's so obviously trying to be deep and meaningful and Tolkien-esque but it's just a bit eye-roll worthy, to be honest, and this definitely isn't Tolkien. You can use his names and places but it's not Tolkien. To be fair I imagine it's REALLY fucking hard to nail his style in any convincing way so yeah.
Harsh? Perhaps, but I thought it was very flawed.
I'm going to give them a massive benefit of the doubt and say that boat man is not Sauron. Because surely not? "Looks can be deceiving." Really? That has to be red herring. Especially since if he ends up tricking Galadriel then this makes no sense later when she is the suspicious one when Annatar arrives in Eregion.
Meteor man? Gandalf? I mean, this would make NO sense unless they 100% do not give a fuck about the timeline (possible) and/or are worried that they desperately need another big name the normies know to sell this show. Another Istari? Possibly, but there is no way they were not "wink-wink, nudge nudging" the audience into thinking it could be Gandalf.
Things I liked?
As I said at the beginning I thought Khazad-dûm looked neat, and the dwarfs looked cool in their armor. Despite having real trouble with buying into the actor playing Elrond he came out of these two hours as probably the most likable character along with Nori. The whole going to dinner stuff was a bit silly but it at least felt engaging which was something the show was struggling with up to that point. Eagle getting smoked in the beginning was a wild shot. Sauron shot from the same sequence was cool, etc.
Fleeting moments though. The biggest problem is that it's just not that compelling yet and for a show that is basically an 8-hour film for its first season you'd hope they would do more to hook you in and I didn't feel it. You can almost sense they know this too. Like when they add the big meaningless sea monster into it to pick the pace up. It's like they know this is dragging.
So yeah, there we go. Pretty scathing. I didn't think it was terrible but I didn't think it was good either and when you're taking Tolkien's work and spending this much money, expectations should be sky high. I think the people making the show have good intentions but it's a big ask. I will definitely continue watching and I hope they find their upward trajectory but I'm far from convinced.
But 2 hours in and I don't care that much? Galadriel isn't really that interesting to me yet. Warrior Galadriel I'm fine, with. Tolkien himself describes her as "Amazonian" in this era but she just seems kind of generic so far. Lots of staring into the middle distance with a serious face is not enough for me to care about your main character, Galadriel or not. Generic unfortunately covers a lot of my criticism for the first two hours. In fact, that was my problem with all the elves. They were all missing that certain ethereal quality.
The Harfoots are fine, I didn't mind them. I've already decided I'm not going to get bogged down and super picky (unless it's really egregious) with the original creations the showrunners are inserting and the shuffling around and reimagining of a race like the Harfoots in the second age, because it's already established they are going to have to fill out this 50 hours somehow, so if that was to be a dealbreaker it's over before its started. So this I didn't mind too much and Nori was a character that I felt I wanted to root for straight away so good job there.
There were some really cool shots but the pacing was off and the dialogue was not good. It's so obviously trying to be deep and meaningful and Tolkien-esque but it's just a bit eye-roll worthy, to be honest, and this definitely isn't Tolkien. You can use his names and places but it's not Tolkien. To be fair I imagine it's REALLY fucking hard to nail his style in any convincing way so yeah.
Harsh? Perhaps, but I thought it was very flawed.
I'm going to give them a massive benefit of the doubt and say that boat man is not Sauron. Because surely not? "Looks can be deceiving." Really? That has to be red herring. Especially since if he ends up tricking Galadriel then this makes no sense later when she is the suspicious one when Annatar arrives in Eregion.
Meteor man? Gandalf? I mean, this would make NO sense unless they 100% do not give a fuck about the timeline (possible) and/or are worried that they desperately need another big name the normies know to sell this show. Another Istari? Possibly, but there is no way they were not "wink-wink, nudge nudging" the audience into thinking it could be Gandalf.
Things I liked?
As I said at the beginning I thought Khazad-dûm looked neat, and the dwarfs looked cool in their armor. Despite having real trouble with buying into the actor playing Elrond he came out of these two hours as probably the most likable character along with Nori. The whole going to dinner stuff was a bit silly but it at least felt engaging which was something the show was struggling with up to that point. Eagle getting smoked in the beginning was a wild shot. Sauron shot from the same sequence was cool, etc.
Fleeting moments though. The biggest problem is that it's just not that compelling yet and for a show that is basically an 8-hour film for its first season you'd hope they would do more to hook you in and I didn't feel it. You can almost sense they know this too. Like when they add the big meaningless sea monster into it to pick the pace up. It's like they know this is dragging.
So yeah, there we go. Pretty scathing. I didn't think it was terrible but I didn't think it was good either and when you're taking Tolkien's work and spending this much money, expectations should be sky high. I think the people making the show have good intentions but it's a big ask. I will definitely continue watching and I hope they find their upward trajectory but I'm far from convinced.
MODMAN
New member
^Good write up!
Mum and I both exchanged an "oh dear" look during the opening discussion re: differences between stones and sail boats.
Just off the top of my head from the movie trilogy:
“So fair, so cold; like a morning of pale spring still clinging to winter's chill."
"When it last I lay down my enemy and smote his ruin upon the mountainside"
"An image of the splendour of the Kings of Men in glory undimmed before the breaking of the world"
To pull that dialogue off requires gravitas, conviction and restraint. I'm not an expert - I don't know the secret recipe to making it work, but it just did in those films. Here, it felt like they were doing a Tolkien impression.
Mum and I both exchanged an "oh dear" look during the opening discussion re: differences between stones and sail boats.
Just off the top of my head from the movie trilogy:
“So fair, so cold; like a morning of pale spring still clinging to winter's chill."
"When it last I lay down my enemy and smote his ruin upon the mountainside"
"An image of the splendour of the Kings of Men in glory undimmed before the breaking of the world"
To pull that dialogue off requires gravitas, conviction and restraint. I'm not an expert - I don't know the secret recipe to making it work, but it just did in those films. Here, it felt like they were doing a Tolkien impression.
CaptainWacky
I want to smell dark matter
It probably doesn't help that it's all based on the appendices, so they can't really have the characters speak in quotes from the books (because they don't have the rights to them and because Tolkien only sketched this period.) Whereas I think all three things you just quoted were all from the book or at least close to book quotes.
CaptainWacky
I want to smell dark matter
Third episode. My complaint about the dialogue remains true. Even Galadriel just sounds like a human who uses big words sometimes. Overall wasn't feeling this one that much. Obviously the arrival at Numernor looked amazing and part of me does really enjoy seeing locations like that on screen. But there were far too many moments with the slow motion and musicals cues that just felt like they were trying to remind you of the Peter Jackson movies. Like the elf having his throat slip and thingy's reaciton was totally meant to make us think of Legolas reacting to Haldir's death. Then they tried to make us think of it again at the end of the episode with the other elf being shot by arrows (which also brings Boromir's death to mind!) The EXTREME close-up of Galadriel's face riding the horse looked silly. The warg looked like Weasel from The Suicide Squad.
Hobbit stuff was fine and kind of works better because they're off on their own, but I still hope the giant isn't Gandalf.
Isildur's sister looked so much like Emma Watson that I literally said "is that Emma Watson" before remembering that if Emma Watson was in this show I'd probably know already.
Hobbit stuff was fine and kind of works better because they're off on their own, but I still hope the giant isn't Gandalf.
Isildur's sister looked so much like Emma Watson that I literally said "is that Emma Watson" before remembering that if Emma Watson was in this show I'd probably know already.