Seperation of Church & State vs. Judaism -- Another Example

[The Question]

This might have been better put in Right Thinking, but I think it makes an interesting follow-up to Chadarnook's "Understanding Anti-Semitism" thread, so I decided to put it here in the same forum.

Inside Toronto Article

]York U. prof takes stand on holidays
Will cancel class on religious holidays

FANNIE SUNSHINE More from this author
Oct. 9, 2005

A Jewish York University professor said the cancellation of classes on religious holidays - most notably Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur - is "illegal, discriminatory and arbitrary" and plans to cancel future classes for any religious holidays his students observe.

Historian David Noble said the issue of York's policy to cancel classes for the Jewish high holidays - the only faith singled out by the Steeles Avenue and Keele Street university to do so - arose last year when his class was discussing church versus state institutions.

"The issue came up about York University being a state institution and I explored this and discovered to my surprise the cancellation of classes on religious holidays is illegal," he said, adding the University Act expressly prohibits cancelling classes for religious holidays. "This is not about Jewish holidays. The university also cancels classes on Good Friday but the problem with Good Friday is that it's a statutory holiday. The only holidays York University itself deemed special are Jewish holidays."

For the past 40 years, York has cancelled classes on the Jewish high holidays of Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur. Rosh Hashanah was observed last Tuesday and Wednesday and Yom Kippur begins Wednesday at sundown.

Noble said he wrote a letter to York's president Lorna Marsden last September regarding his findings and was directed to the university's senate, who he said refused to examine the disparity between York's practice of holding classes on Jewish holidays and the law.

"Since no action was being taken I would take that action myself," said Noble, calling it his "civil obedience".

Noble, who has taught at York for 15 years, said he was threatened with disciplinary action and also received threatening phone calls from anonymous callers and decided to reverse his stance.

"Rather than hold classes (on religious holidays), I decided I would cancel classes for other religious holidays," he said, adding he plans to cancel two classes for the Muslim holiday Eid al-Fitr in November, which celebrates the breaking of the fast of Ramadan. "I'm not an expert on world religions but in my class, I see the religions of the world. I asked my students if they could identify their holidays of significance and I will cancel classes on those days."

According to a York U. spokesperson, if a professor chooses to cancel class they are expected to make it up at another time to ensure that a full allotment of classes is held to cover the course material, which would typically be 12 times each term, on each weekday that the class meets.

"I didn't have to make up Rosh Hashanah, did I?" Noble replied when asked if he would make up classes he plans to cancel for other religious holidays. "Why the difference? It's called discrimination. If you ask me, there are more Muslim students than Jewish ones, and there might be more Asian students (than Jewish)."

Noble said he's aware that if he wasn't Jewish, he would immediately be labelled an anti-Semite but because of his faith, it allows him to raise this issue.

"I've had unbelievable support from the community and the students," he said. "It's so obvious, it's a no-brainer."

Noble said he's "not concerned" about disciplinary action being taken against him by the university should he not make up cancelled classes.

"What I am doing is lawful and just and what they are doing is unfair and unjust," he said.

A York official said the university has a long-standing tradition of not holding classes on Jewish holidays, including Passover in the spring, due to the large Jewish population at the institution.

"For practical reasons we do this to avoid classroom disruption," the official said. "We have a large number of students and staff who observe these holidays."

But it was noted the university does not keep statistics on students' faiths and does not know the number of Jewish students on campus.

Students who wish to take days off in observance of their faith can make arrangements with their course instructor, the official said.

Rob Tiffin, vice-president of students, said Noble's position that cancelling classes on religious holidays is illegal according to the University Act is a question of interpretation.

 

[RobL]

Rob Tiffin, vice-president of students, said Noble's position that cancelling classes on religious holidays is illegal according to the University Act is a question of interpretation.

lol :lol:

 

[WordInterrupted]

Every school I've attended hasn't held class on Christmas and Easter. Do you think they should end that practice as well?

 

[SilentBtAwesome]

I DEMAND THIS THREAD BE DELETED AS IT IS DISRESPECTFUL TO Clergy Appreciation Day 2005, ON WHICH IT WAS CLEARLY STARTED IN ORDER TO BE DEROGATORY TO OUR CLERGY WHICH AS WE ALL KNOW ARE THE MORAL BACKBONE OF OUR FINE SOCIETY.

 

[The Question]

Every school I've attended hasn't held class on Christmas and Easter. Do you think they should end that practice as well?

Are the Jewish holidays commercialized, secularized national holidays? Or purely religious ones?

 

[SSgt_Sniper]

The man does have a point; that said I think he's ultimately pissing into the wind. There isn't enough positive sentiment in this country towards the muslim community for people to want parity for them, and the Asiain community would probably not ask for holidays anyway. The other thing is this can devolve to the point that if you really look, it's almost always a holiday somewhere on the globe.

 

[WordInterrupted]

Are the Jewish holidays commercialized, secularized national holidays? Or purely religious ones?

I don't know if they're commercialized, but they're certainly secularized. Many non-religious Jews still celebrate the major Jewish holidays. What you're implying is that it's alright for Christians to get their holidays off because they're culturally dominate.

 

[jack]

Well Chanukah has been commercialized into some gift-giving kind of Jewish Xmas, which is bullshit, since it's about the One True Jew Superhero (that would be Judah The Macabee for you goyim)

But the schism is there, the Oxymoron of Christmas, which has more to do with paganism that Christianity, is considered the "birthday" of Christ. I guess we had to pick some day, or something.

Take Easter, as another. Fucking Catholics co-opted this perfectly pagan fertility ritual into a rock pushing contest.

 

[jack]

Many non-religious Jews still celebrate the major Jewish holidays

What the fuck is that supposed to mean? Are you some kind of "Jew Yardstick"?

 

[Anubis]

Take Easter, as another. Fucking Catholics co-opted this perfectly pagan fertility ritual into a rock pushing contest.

God hates people and loves people. God forgives and never forgives. God is the giver and the taker, the father, the vengeful one and the gentle one.

Early organized Christianity created this image of a manic-depressive God in order to unify the myriad of Christian cults. The same went for holidays, which I've always perceived as being more cultural than religious. Attempting to due away with pagan fertility festivals would have been a bit problematic for the fledgling religion.

 

[Big Dick McGee]

Many non-religious Jews still celebrate the major Jewish holidays

What the fuck is that supposed to mean? Are you some kind of "Jew Yardstick"?

It's a pretty simple observation, actually. If you work with any jews, or know any jews, you'll notice that there are many Jews who aren't religious in the least. They go to synagogue once a year, on the Day of Atonement. Yet they all take off on the Jewish Holidays. And woe unto you if you challenge them on it, you fucking disgusting anti-semite! :roll:

 

[Rabbit]

As many days off as possible please. I'm all for taking Halloween off also.

 

[The Question]

I don't know if they're commercialized, but they're certainly secularized. Many non-religious Jews still celebrate the major Jewish holidays. What you're implying is that it's alright for Christians to get their holidays off because they're culturally dominate.

No, what I'm saying is that they aren't really even Christian holidays anymore, for the most part. Is anybody making atheist-bastardized versions of Hanukkah or Yom Kippur or any of those? When's the last time somebody sent you a holiday card with "Happy Xkuh!" on it?

More to the point, what kind of uproarious bullshit would we end up being witness to if our Commander-In-Chief made formal attendance at Christian religious services on Christmas? Would that sit right with you? If not, why is it acceptable for him to formally attend Hanukkah services? Why is it more acceptable for him to be made to play with a dreidl than it would be for him to address the press wearing a rosary?

 

[jack]

It isn't, who's making that point?

 

[The Question]

Wordin appears to be trying to.

 

[Anubis]

“There is no better way for Jews to express their gratitude to America than to place a Torah in the Pentagon, which has preserved our freedom,†said Hank Sopher, a prominent New York real estate magnate and owner of Quik Park garages.

New Torah for the Pentagon

 

[The Question]

Oh, come on, now! You can't have the Ten Commandments in courthouses, but you can have a fucking Torah in the Pentagon?!

 

[Anubis]

No double standard I can spot . . . :roll:

 

[SilentBtViolent]

At least they decided not to anoint anyone Christ this year. That shit was unbelievable.

 

[WordInterrupted]

No, what I'm saying is that they aren't really even Christian holidays anymore, for the most part. Is anybody making atheist-bastardized versions of Hanukkah or Yom Kippur or any of those? When's the last time somebody sent you a holiday card with "Happy Xkuh!" on it?

In the United States, Hanukkah retains less of its original religious meaning than Christmas. Large swaths of the U.S. population are devout Christians who still harbor fervent religious beliefs. In contrast, the U.S. Jewish population--partly as a result of its generally higher level of education and income--is much less likely to practice religion. If your standard is secluarization, we should abolish Christmas and make Hanukkah a national holiday.

More to the point, what kind of uproarious bullshit would we end up being witness to if our Commander-In-Chief made formal attendance at Christian religious services on Christmas? Would that sit right with you? If not, why is it acceptable for him to formally attend Hanukkah services? Why is it more acceptable for him to be made to play with a dreidl than it would be for him to address the press wearing a rosary?

The President does make formal attendance of a Christian religious services on Christmas.