Seperation of Church & State vs. Judaism -- Another Example

[jack]

The fucking Lubavitch are total freaks. Not accurate to call these folks "Jews".

Zionists is more like it, and that's not "Jewish".

That's against Jewish law, if that's really true. You don't fuck with Scripture, especially the Scrolls.

 

[TKers-are-shit]

I don't agree

 

[TheResurrect0r]

I don't agree

WELL STOP THE PRESSES!

 

[The Question]

In the United States, Hanukkah retains less of its original religious meaning than Christmas. Large swaths of the U.S. population are devout Christians who still harbor fervent religious beliefs. In contrast, the U.S. Jewish population--partly as a result of its generally higher level of education and income--is much less likely to practice religion. If your standard is secluarization, we should abolish Christmas and make Hanukkah a national holiday.

You are so full of shit.

The President does make formal attendance of a Christian religious services on Christmas.

Really. Cite an example of Bush celebrating a Christian holiday in the White House. And while you scramble to find even one example to back up your idiotic excuse-making, here's Bush gettin' Jewish with it.

 

[WordInterrupted]

You are so full of shit.

52 percent of Jews do NOT believe in God.

http://www.simpletoremember.com/vitals/JewsDontBelieve.htm

Jews are more secular, my dear, and accusing me of being "full of shit" is not going to change the facts.

Really. Cite an example of Bush celebrating a Christian holiday in the White House. And while you scramble to find even one example to back up your idiotic excuse-making, here's Bush gettin' Jewish with it.

Caption: President George W. Bush Laura Bush watch a puppet show and sing Christmas Carols with dozens of school children attending the White House Children's Christmas Program in the East Room, Monday, Dec. 6, 2004.White House photo by Susan Sterner

 

[SSgt_Sniper]

A secularized version mind you, I don't see one bible or preacher there. I do however see Santa, which has shit to do with the biblical reason for the holiday.

 

[The Question]

Exactly. Santa Claus is not a Christian personage. The Eastern Bunny is not a Christian personage. There isn't a Bible in sight in that photo, nor a preacher. The closest you could possibly get is the mention of Christmas carols, but there are a flotilla of non-hymnal Christmas carols out there, so even that doesn't buy you any points for comparison.

 

[WordInterrupted]

First of all, I've already proven that Jews are more secular than Christians. As noted above, 52% of Jews do not believe in God, as opposed to some 10% of protestants. If 52% of people celebrating Jewish holidays don't believe in God and 10% of people celebrating Christian holidays don't believe in God, the Jewish holidays are more secular by default. If you think we should only celebrate secular holidays, then it makes much more sense to celebrate Haunukka than Christmas.

As for Bush's Christmas celebration, he delivered the following passage as part of his Chistmas address:

During Christmas, we gather with family and friends to celebrate the birth of our Savior, Jesus Christ. As God's only Son, Jesus came to Earth and gave His life so that we may live. His actions and His words remind us that service to others is central to our lives and that sacrifice and unconditional love must guide us and inspire us to lead lives of compassion, mercy, and justice.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/12/20021220-3.html

Would you describe that as "secular?"

 

[The Question]

First of all, I've already proven that Jews are more secular than Christians. As noted above, 52% of Jews do not believe in God, as opposed to some 10% of protestants.

You prove once again that you are a moron.

"Jewish" is a dualistic categorization -- it denotes both an ethnicity and a religion.

"Protestant" is an exclusively religious categorization. You fucking idiot.

If 52% of people celebrating Jewish holidays don't believe in God and 10% of people celebrating Christian holidays don't believe in God, the Jewish holidays are more secular by default.

And you just keep digging yourself deeper, don't you.

If you think we should only celebrate secular holidays, then it makes much more sense to celebrate Haunukka than Christmas.

Moron. All I have to say at this point. WordInterrupted, you are nothing more or less than a paltry, pathetic, pansy-ass moron.

As for Bush's Christmas celebration, he delivered the following passage as part of his Chistmas address:

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/12/20021220-3.html

Would you describe that as "secular?"

Would you describe that as something you believe Bush wrote all by himself?

 

[The Question]

First of all, I've already proven that Jews are more secular than Christians. As noted above, 52% of Jews do not believe in God, as opposed to some 10% of protestants.

You prove once again that you are a moron.

"Jewish" is a dualistic categorization -- it denotes both an ethnicity and a religion.

"Protestant" is an exclusively religious categorization. You fucking idiot.

If 52% of people celebrating Jewish holidays don't believe in God and 10% of people celebrating Christian holidays don't believe in God, the Jewish holidays are more secular by default.

And you just keep digging yourself deeper, don't you.

If you think we should only celebrate secular holidays, then it makes much more sense to celebrate Haunukka than Christmas.

Moron. All I have to say at this point. WordInterrupted, you are nothing more or less than a paltry, pathetic, pansy-ass moron.

As for Bush's Christmas celebration, he delivered the following passage as part of his Chistmas address:

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/12/20021220-3.html

Would you describe that as "secular?"

Would you describe that as something you believe Bush wrote all by himself?

 

[The Question]

First of all, I've already proven that Jews are more secular than Christians. As noted above, 52% of Jews do not believe in God, as opposed to some 10% of protestants.

You prove once again that you are a moron.

"Jewish" is a dualistic categorization -- it denotes both an ethnicity and a religion.

"Protestant" is an exclusively religious categorization. You fucking idiot.

If 52% of people celebrating Jewish holidays don't believe in God and 10% of people celebrating Christian holidays don't believe in God, the Jewish holidays are more secular by default.

And you just keep digging yourself deeper, don't you.

If you think we should only celebrate secular holidays, then it makes much more sense to celebrate Haunukka than Christmas.

Moron. All I have to say at this point. WordInterrupted, you are nothing more or less than a paltry, pathetic, pansy-ass moron.

As for Bush's Christmas celebration, he delivered the following passage as part of his Chistmas address:

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/12/20021220-3.html

Would you describe that as "secular?"

Would you describe that as something you believe Bush wrote all by himself?

 

[jack]

You had to tell him that three times?

 

[Rabbit]

I mourn the loss of religious identity. Now you have to become a muslim or a wiccan to get noticed.

 

[DeltaOne]

If 52% of people celebrating Jewish holidays don't believe in God and 10% of people celebrating Christian holidays don't believe in God, the Jewish holidays are more secular by default.

I really think you've left out a HUGE detail. How many non-Jews celebrate Hannakuh? Now, how many non-Christians celebrate Christmas? So there's that 10% plus everyone else in the fucking world. Oh...minus the Jews of course.

 

[The Question]

You had to tell him that three times?

My cable connection was wonky -- it didn't even post my reply at all for about 20 minutes, and then it spooged it all over the page.

 

[WordInterrupted]

You prove once again that you are a moron.

"Jewish" is a dualistic categorization -- it denotes both an ethnicity and a religion.

"Protestant" is an exclusively religious categorization. You fucking idiot.

Why is this distinction significant? You established secularism as the standard by which we should judge national holidays. "Secular" means non-religious, it has absolutely nothing to do with ethnicity. If secularism is your standard for judging national holidays, why is ethnicity at all relevant?

Would you describe that as something you believe Bush wrote all by himself?

No. I would describe it as an official statement by the President of the United States. I've answered your question, now you answer mine: do you think that official statment can be described as "secular?"

 

[Anubis]

Why is this distinction significant?

Because Arab doesn't mean Muslim, but Jew always means Jew, for lack of a better word.

 

[jack]

My cable connection was wonky -- it didn't even post my reply at all for about 20 minutes, and then it spooged it all over the page.

I hate that...but think of the multiple Karmas you could have posted

 

[WordInterrupted]

Because Arab doesn't mean Muslim, but Jew always means Jew, for lack of a better word.

Explain to me what that has to do with secularism.

 

[The Question]

Fucking. Moron.

There are atheist Jews.

There are not atheist Christians. Or atheist Muslims.

Idiot.