Why are we going after Iran, again?

The Question said:
No, because the Ukrainians aren't "God's chosen people". What this means pragmatically is that their cause will never carry the same weight of religious fervor and fundamentalist ignorance that the Holocaust does.
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I would also agrue it wasn't done on near the scale as the Holocaust was, which I think is why it's been the all-mighty trump card for the Jews ever since. Previous attempts at genocide hit the tens and a couple of hundreds of thousands, but never that big whopping six mil.
 
SSgt_Sniper said:
I would also agrue it wasn't done on near the scale as the Holocaust was, which I think is why it's been the all-mighty trump card for the Jews ever since. Previous attempts at genocide hit the tens and a couple of hundreds of thousands, but never that big whopping six mil.
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Actually, the numbers for the Holodomor (the Ukrainian democide) are not certain (but then again, neither are the numbers for the Holocaust depending on which "authority" is claiming them) but are estimated to be between 6 and 11 million. That's just the Ukrainian deaths; Stalin's overall death toll is far higher than Hitler's. Stalin, though, wasn't going after the "Chosen People". The Holocaust is a religious fixture as much as -- maybe more than -- an objective historical one.
 
Really. I had understood it to be a little over a million Ukraines, and then after that he just started killing anyone he wanted. Mainly political prisoners and their families, and their families families. (He was purported to believe in destroying the entire Family tree. Kinda like Tito, but Tito used more as threat to keep the peace than practice)
 
And not to be outdone by Soviet-style Communism, the Chinese "Great Leap Forward:

The Great Leap Forward is now widely seen, both within China and outside, as a major economic disaster. As inflated statistics reached planning authorities, orders were given to divert human resources into industry rather than agriculture. According to various sources, the death toll due to famine was most likely about 20 to 30 million. The three years between 1959 and 1962 were known as the "Three Bitter Years" and the Three Years of Natural Disasters.
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Source.

The difference between the Stalinist and Chinese Communist democides and the Holocaust, again, is simply religion. Jewish political bodies have painted the Holocaust as the biggest and most evil atrocity of the 20th century, and most people are content to simply swallow that line of tripe and never investigate further, fearing that if they question Jewish claims or even have the temerity to so much as compare it to democides that were larger in scale, they'll be branded as monsters. Well, fuck that. :)
 
The Question said:
No, because the Ukrainians aren't "God's chosen people". What this means pragmatically is that their cause will never carry the same weight of religious fervor and fundamentalist ignorance that the Holocaust does.
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Yep.
 
Interesting. China's known for having the people starve to death. I mean they had them starving to death all through history while fighting their stupid little in-fighting. Hello? How about we grow food this year, make war next year, mmmkay?

Anyway, it's interesting to hear Stalin did more than I thought on the ukrainian side of things, once he started killing anyone indiscriminately though it's technically no longer a genocide as much as just plain fucking evil. But it's odd I had heard the numbers SOO wrong.

And please someone tell me they got the Tito reference? Seems like people today forgot about the only "good" communist dictator.
 
SSgt_Sniper said:
Anyway, it's interesting to hear Stalin did more than I thought on the ukrainian side of things, once he started killing anyone indiscriminately though it's technically no longer a genocide as much as just plain fucking evil.
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Well, it wouldn't be Genocide either way, but rather a Democide, just as the Holocaust (if it had actually occurred) would have been a Democide, because -- had it actually been an engineered event rather than just the death toll of a typhus epidemic, there were more victims than just Jewish folks. There were Romanians, Sinti, Germans and Poles as well, to name a few. Part of the propaganda, though, has always been to maintain that it was an overwhelmingly (or even exclusively) Jewish catastrophe. You might have noticed news stories recently in which the ADL and other groups condemned the Pope for mentioning other groups of victims during his speech at Auschwitz. They would prefer it were a purely Jewish-owned event.

But it's odd I had heard the numbers SOO wrong.
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Not really, no. Like I said, most people don't even know about it. At all.
 
So no one remembers Tito? Damn.

Well, I knew that Stalin had racked up huge murder numbers, but I didn't think it was almost exclusively Ukraines. He's known mostly for having the "kill em all" attitude regarding anyone that didn't say enough nice shit about him, and some of those who did (just for giggles).
 
SSgt_Sniper said:
Well, I knew that Stalin had racked up huge murder numbers, but I didn't think it was almost exclusively Ukraines.
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It wasn't -- his numbers simply included them -- as I said, his total comes to around 11 million according to some sources, the 7 mil in the Ukraine were just part of that.

He's known mostly for having the "kill em all" attitude regarding anyone that didn't say enough nice shit about him, and some of those who did (just for giggles).
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And you know the really nice part about it? He was the propaganda master. Before his man Ilya Ehrenburg cooked up the Jewish Holocaust stuff (or should I say rehashed it? The 6 million genocide story made its debut in World War 1, not WW2.) Stalin had the NY Times Moscow correspondent Walter Duranty in his pocket, telling American readers that everything was paradise in the Soviet Union, while he fucking watched the death toll from the Ukraine roll in.
 
Well, on a subject note we can agree on, the best part is (for irony, not the suffering involved) He killed anyone smart enough to make a difference in a big fight, then Hitler invaded his ass, and he had no decent tactical minds left, and he went FUCK! so loud it's still echoing in the Steppes. Eeediottt.
 
SSgt_Sniper said:
Oh. An aside. I thought it was primarily CS gas and Mustard gas (left over from WW I) that the germans used.
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Oh, the murder weapon piece of the story changed so many fucking times it's ludicrous. First it was steam. STEAM. Then it was diesel fumes. Then they figured out diesel fumes wouldn't kill fuck-all, at least nowhere near fast enough to pile up six million dead. Then it was special rooms with electric plates in the floors. Problem: no conduction that way, not to mention no such plate ever fucking existed. Then they settled on Zyklon B, because it was the only thing that could kill that many people that ever was actually in the camps. Problem with Zyklon? It doesn't work in piping systems like showers. It has to be exposed to heated air in order to vaporize. Problem 2 with Zyklon? It takes 24 hours to kill moths. MOTHS. Problem 3 -- the "gas chambers". In order to fit enough people in them to mathematically account for the number of dead in the time the Germans had, each victim would have to have been compacted to a cube 3' x 3' x 3'. MAXIMUM.

So the "shower room" gas chamber American GIs were shown would never have worked even it if had been completed, which it wasn't. I'm sorry to say it, but the American troops that were shown that room were lied to, plain and simple. They believed the lie and passed it on. That doesn't make them liars, but it doesn't make what they told folks anything other than a lie.
 
Well, I'm not really worried, personally, about whether anyone believes it or not. In fact, I'd rather no one believes it just because I say it's so. It's enough to know that, 20 or even 10 years from now, the fraud will have become so obvious to so many people that those who still buy into the propaganda will acknowledge, even if only to themselves, that they believe it on faith rather than accept it on reason.
 
Messenger said:
So you're basically ignoring scientific fact because the implications don't rest well with you?
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Is it wrong for me to put my belief behind a man I know I could trust over a guy on an internet forum that seems to be pretty smart? Not me being an ass, just saying that's how I look at it.
 
SSgt_Sniper said:
Is it wrong for me to put my belief behind a man I know I could trust over a guy on an internet forum that seems to be pretty smart? Not me being an ass, just saying that's how I look at it.
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But you don't seem even the least bit curious about this. And belief shouldn't have all that much to do with it, although you probably weren't using that word in such a context.
 
Not in that particular sense, no. And I'm busy trying to drum up that stuff you wanted, I don't have the time for another tangent. It's bad enough the one you've got me tied up with now. BTW, Google sucks nuts.
 
SSgt_Sniper said:
Well, on a subject note we can agree on, the best part is (for irony, not the suffering involved) He killed anyone smart enough to make a difference in a big fight, then Hitler invaded his ass, and he had no decent tactical minds left, and he went FUCK! so loud it's still echoing in the Steppes. Eeediottt.
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The combination of that and his total disregard for human life were the genesis of both the USSR's famous "human wave" attacks, where unarmed Soviet soldiers basically just hurled themselves into storms of bullets and shelling, and the lack of discipline among invading Soviets who raped and murdered their way through Germany, both on the way to Berlin and during the subsequent occupation.
 
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