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wtf exisle?

eloisel said:
Well, I guess you told me. Perhaps I should go sit in the corner and cry.

First, I like myself. I like talking about myself. I like my life. I like talking about my life. My parents were kind enough to allow me to be born. Me writing about me is not me squirming.

Second, my opinions are not based on what you or anyone else allows me to have. My opinions are based on my own, real personal experiences. I'm not some person standing on the sidelines spouting in a sanctimonious voice what other people should do even though I've never personally faced their dilemma.

Third, if you had read and thought about what I wrote, you would see that my life is a diverse life. I interact with people of all kinds - not just colors, not just races, not just sexes, not just sizes, not just political beliefs. The people in my life are not one size fits all kinds of folks. Personally, I think refusing to accept the fact and acknowledge that people come in a variety of ways is racist and bigoted. Do you think if you don't say that someone is black no one will notice you are a racist and a bigot? The very fact that you are unable to say it makes you a racist. You obviously think there is something wrong with being non-white. Consider this - when you read a book, a magazine, whatever, unless you are told that the character is African-American, black, Chinese, swarthy, woolen-haired, etc. do you not automatically think that the character is white? You know you do.

Fourth - English is the common language of this land. I shouldn't have to be forced to speak a foreign language in this country. Whether I choose to speak any other languaeg besides English is not the issue. That I am forced to is.

Fifth - I quit smoking two years ago this month. I don't go to the store to buy a pack of smokes.

Sixth - the kids that go to the Korean church behind me are assholes. They threw rocks at my old dog - who was in my yard behind my chain link fence. Because the church people couldn't control their kids, I made them put up a high wooden fence so the kids couldn't harass my dog.

Seventh - I can call Obama a half-black person if I want. It is the truth. I would call him half-white if he looked more white than he does black. Is he no longer the first "black" president? Has that changed? I didn't get the memo if it did.

Eighth - perhaps you should analyze your own racist beliefs. Do you really live in a world where everyone is white?

Ninth - where did I attempt to engage you politically? My original response was a comment regarding TKers still harassing EIers. No matter what sort of chaos is going on in the world, it is a constant that TKers banned from EI will spend infinite energy and time devising methods to get back into EI so they can be banned again. You're the one that went all racist because I wrote "half-black" in describing Obama. You're the one that went all racist because I don't like people trying to force me to speak a foreign language. Sheesh. Shit ass.
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Grumpy old crazy lady is grumpy. All I really learned from this ranting is a good inkling of why you're twice divorced. Even in writing you're very shrill. I'd put an icepick in my ear if I had to actually listen to some of this stuff. And you're still dodging the original question in many entertaining but completely irrelevant ways, by trying to turn it back on me. I didn't ask why you called him "half-black": I asked why you had to point that out as a reason our country is in chaos.

Just in case senility is making you forget, here is the original take:
grumpy crazy lady said:
What with the world in chaos because of the failing economy, industries needing bailing out, wars, and a half black man as President in the White House, it is comforting to know that there are some constants.
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Bolds are mine for clarity.

Remember? I don't care if you're racist, the country's full of people like you. But if you come making blanket statements and you want the right to say them, don't expect it to go unchallenged.

Then there's this gem:
puta vieja gruñón said:
I've quit going to the 7-11 in my neighborhood too. Why? Because the last time I went in the employees were chatting to each other in Mexican, their radio was blaring Mexican music, and the chick greeted me at the register with "Comb esta." I said, "Excuse me. I've walked into a foreign country. I meant to shop American," left the items on the counter unpaid for and exited the store.
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I note there's no instance where anybody asked you to learn to speak any foreign language, and in fact asked you how you were. Shame on them!

As for engaging me politically, well, not in a specific sense but you've made a number of political comments in this thread and most of them are too trite to really expand on. Besides, if I try to open that can of worms you might spray me with a garden hose and tell me to get the hell off your lawn...
 
Better a fetus gets aborted than an unwanted, abused child is brought to term and is stuck with a lifetime of misery.
 
And it's not our job to say who can do what with themselves, nor are we to judge them for it. If abortion is truly a moral sin against God, then let God deal with it. The fact that someone you know had an abortion should in no way affect how you interact with them; if so, by the standards of the New Testament you've got bigger problems with God than they do for judging them when it isn't your lot to do so and then for failing to forgive them.

So if someone gets an abortion, so the fuck what. It's not your problem.
 
Una Salus Lillius said:
I agree that that is the choice. The disagreement arises regarding who gets to make that choice.
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It is never the kid's that is just a few inches away from being allowed to live.

I was agreeing with Obama, thinking maybe, just maybe ...
then I saw one of his speeches where he addressed abortion.
He says he is going to teach his daughters morals and values, about contraception, and other good things
then
(see around :45 seconds into this clip of that speech shown on YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBJryE6nUVM)
he says he would rather his daughters get an abortion than be punished with a baby if they make a mistake.

Just what is he teaching his girls? That morals, values, contraceptives, and all manner of good things is all fine and good as long as it is convenient?

What is he saying to children that come from unplanned pregnancies? That they were just mistakes? Their life isn't worth anything? That they should have been killed in the womb?

What about other people that come in to our lives and they are trouble, inconvenient, a pain in the neck? Isn't it okay to kill them too?

I don't want to legislate away some female's right to have an abortion. We've had that legislation and know the result. I want people to stop thinking of unborn babies as trash.
 
Dual said:
Better a fetus gets aborted than an unwanted, abused child is brought to term and is stuck with a lifetime of misery.
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"I will kill my unborn child today because I know in 7 months I will abuse, torture, neglect, and possibly kill this child."

You don't think it necessary to address the criminal aspect of the person or persons that would have inflicted pain and injury, abuse and misery on that child? You don't think that maybe the need to abort at will might just be a symptom of the underlying insanity?
 
Bickendan said:
And it's not our job to say who can do what with themselves, nor are we to judge them for it. If abortion is truly a moral sin against God, then let God deal with it. The fact that someone you know had an abortion should in no way affect how you interact with them; if so, by the standards of the New Testament you've got bigger problems with God than they do for judging them when it isn't your lot to do so and then for failing to forgive them.

So if someone gets an abortion, so the fuck what. It's not your problem.
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That is bull shit. As a society, we have laws regarding criminal activity. We put people in prisons to punish them for their criminal activity. We punish people with the death penalty for committing heinous crimes.

Further, you might read Matthew 7 in its entirety to get the context of the statement regarding "not making judgments." Jesus was talking to persons who were hypocritical in their judgments - i.e., condemning people for things of which they were also guilty. Within the complete relevant text, Jesus instructs them to make judgments.
 
eloisel said:
"I will kill my unborn child today because I know in 7 months I will abuse, torture, neglect, and possibly kill this child."

You don't think it necessary to address the criminal aspect of the person or persons that would have inflicted pain and injury, abuse and misery on that child? You don't think that maybe the need to abort at will might just be a symptom of the underlying insanity?
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Even if it is, do you want to force the child to be raised by an insane, unwilling parent? Forcing somebody like that to carry a child to term guarantees it will have a terrible life.
 
Robert "Monkey" Loggia said:
I like how you ignored all the legit points that Donovan pointed out. Brilliant.
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Donovan argues like you do - he doesn't make points - he just repeats the same old impersonal shit.

"You don't agree with me so you are stupid."

"You don't have the right to not agree with me because if you don't agree with me you are stupid."

"I can tell you what you should think about abortion but you don't have the right to tell me or anybody else what they should think about abortion."

"You are a racist because you aren't afraid to recognize that we aren't all exactly alike."

"How dare you want to speak English in America!"

"You aren't saying what I want you to say. How fucking dare you, you stupid, idiot, crabby old bitch."

"You're ugly."

"You're fat."

"You're stupid."

"You're blah, blah, blah."

There isn't anything to learn from either you or Donovan on any subject of importance. The only thing you tell me about yourselves is that you don't have any real experiences that shape your thoughts and your beliefs, probably because you don't have any real life personal relationships that aren't very casual and superficial. It is also evident that neither of you are capable of holding opinions that aren't currently popular and, therefore, unable to think for yourselves. In short, there is nothing genuine or interesting about you. You're simply shit to stir with a stick. As much as I like shit stirring, at some point I am fortunate to be distracted by other more interesting things.
 
Dual said:
Even if it is, do you want to force the child to be raised by an insane, unwilling parent? Forcing somebody like that to carry a child to term guarantees it will have a terrible life.
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Without removing a person's right to abort their babies for any reason, please examine your reason for justifying the death of the unborn baby.

Because we all may at some point in our lives have bad experiences, should we be killed now so they we won't have to face potentially being miserable in the future?
 
eloisel said:
Donovan argues like you do - he doesn't make points - he just repeats the same old impersonal shit.

"You don't agree with me so you are stupid."

"You don't have the right to not agree with me because if you don't agree with me you are stupid."

"I can tell you what you should think about abortion but you don't have the right to tell me or anybody else what they should think about abortion."

"You are a racist because you aren't afraid to recognize that we aren't all exactly alike."

"How dare you want to speak English in America!"

"You aren't saying what I want you to say. How fucking dare you, you stupid, idiot, crabby old bitch."

"You're ugly."

"You're fat."

"You're stupid."

"You're blah, blah, blah."

There isn't anything to learn from either you or Donovan on any subject of importance. The only thing you tell me about yourselves is that you don't have any real experiences that shape your thoughts and your beliefs, probably because you don't have any real life personal relationships that aren't very casual and superficial. It is also evident that neither of you are capable of holding opinions that aren't currently popular and, therefore, unable to think for yourselves. In short, there is nothing genuine or interesting about you. You're simply shit to stir with a stick. As much as I like shit stirring, at some point I am fortunate to be distracted by other more interesting things.
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You obviously know nothing about me, or you would know all of that is as far from the truth as you can get. The point that Donovan keeps bringing up, which you ignore time and time again, is WHY did you feel it necessary to point out that one of the reasons that the world is in chaos is because Obama is half black? You keep backpedaling by saying shit that doesn't have anything to do with the price of green apples.
 
eloisel said:
Without removing a person's right to abort their babies for any reason, please examine your reason for justifying the death of the unborn baby.

Because we all may at some point in our lives have bad experiences, should we be killed now so they we won't have to face potentially being miserable in the future?
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Yes. Why not?

Why continue to overpopulate this suffering world with miserable people?

You act like the unborn, mindless fetus is actually going to be upset and sad that it never got to live. It doesn't KNOW.
 
I truly detest talking about abortion in general. It's a very unpleasant and upsetting subject, and it's one of those things that very few people change their minds on. However, I'm going to explain my views on it here, and you guys can agree or not. It makes no difference to me. To begin with, I feel abortion should be illegal for any reason except to preserve the life of the mother. I'll explain why.

I would agree it should be the woman's choice if it was a strictly personal decision which affected only the person doing it. For example: gay marriage - I'm fine with it. I don't give a shit if they want to be as miserable as the rest of us. Drugs - Legalize the crap, and let people kill themselves off if they're that stupid. Assisted suicide? Fine. That should be up to the patient. I maintain the Libertarian creed "Your rights end where mine begin." Once you start infringing on the Life, Liberty and Property of another human being, then you've crossed the line and it's no longer strictly a personal choice. For example, I should have the right to take my own life, but I don't have the right to run my neighbor over because he inconveniences me. Every person has the right to do as they wish his or her own body. This includes the baby, who has the same rights to Life Liberty and Property. Nobody has the right to take that person's life, impinge on their liberty, or remove from them their property without their consent. A baby in the womb is unable to give such consent, so they must be protected. Further, I believe that the only valid reasons for taking another human life is in 1. Mutual combat 2. Defense of self and others. Any other reason is murder. If the mother's life is in danger, however, that is no different than someone holding a gun to her head. That should be the only circumstance under which abortion should be legal.

Some people say "abortion is a terrible thing, but should be allowed if a person wants it." Well, I answer "Is it murder or isn't it?" If it isn't murder, then abortions should be allowed at any time and should be widely practiced as a form of birth control. If it's not human, then there should be no moral or ethical compunction to engaging in the practice at any time a person wishes. However, if it IS murder, then there is no excuse to have or participate in abortions.

I also won't date a woman who is pro-abortion. It's not out of spite or an intolerance of dissenting opinion. She could be a flaming Communist, and I could handle that quite easily in comparison. The reason is, that we would have a fundamental disagreement on the value of human life. Someone who thinks it's OK to murder an unborn baby, often in the most horrific and grotesque manners imaginable, is not a person I want hanging around my two children.

That's pretty much all I'm going to say on it. Oh, and Bick; To answer your challenge earlier, yes I AM against the death penalty and the war. I certainly understand eloisel's reasoning on those two subjects, and I agree to an extent. However I still oppose them.
 
Robert "Monkey" Loggia said:
Yes. Why not?

Why continue to overpopulate this suffering world with miserable people?

You act like the unborn, mindless fetus is actually going to be upset and sad that it never got to live. It doesn't KNOW.
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You can end your own suffering. I like living, even though it is sad sometimes and often disappointing and far less than ideal. The good parts make it all worthwhile for me.

I won't agree with you that the unborn are mindless or unknowing. When I was pregnant with my daughter, "Money" by Pink Floyd was a popular song and one I heard often at a local bar I used to hang out at with my friends even though I did not drink. Later, when my daughter was about one and a half years old, I was sitting in my car with her outside a laundrymat listening to the radio while waiting for the time to put our clothes in the dryer. The intro of a familiar song came on the radio and my daughter started singing on cue with the first word - Money.
 
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