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IF VA TECH HADN'T OUTLAWED GUNS ON CAMPUS

Actually, no it isn't. I don't even like Techman very much, but he's making a lot more sense than you about this.

Stirring the shit is meaningless. If SOMEONE had access to a fucking gun in that building that was supposed to know where it was and be able to use it in an emergency, 33 people may not have been sacrificed to satisfy some angry student's selfish fucking rage.
 
I love guns, I've got my first gun when I was 10 yrs old. I do not, however, want to go to a school where the students are allowed to carry guns. Most people have no sense of personal responsibility and I am not inclined to believe they'd practice any responsibility with a gun either. Shit.. we've had to make fucking laws in this country to get people to put their guns away if they have children in their homes.

I don't think anyone is advocating arming the entire school (are you?) A few intensely trained individuals, who are willing to have regular drug and alcohol screenings, who also are serious students, would make much more sense than allowing the entire student body to carry weapons. Or the schools could create their own police force, with armed trained officers, who are not part of the student body, in every building.

If the students are allowed to carry weapons, and they injure someone, who will the parents of the injured sue? Not the student with the gun, that's chump change.
 
Alex Buchet said:
That's asinine. You're assuming that the result of an armed Virginia Tech campus would have been to take out the spree killer with fewer casualties. That's not a safe assumption -- given the general panic in the face of the mayhem a lot of armed citizens could have made things a lot worse.
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Possibly. But instead, a lot of unarmed citizens got killed.

Alex Buchet said:
Secondly, the downside of an armed campus is pretty obvious. How many drunken fights occur on a typical weekend at Virginia Tech? Do you really want immature, reckless college kids to be strapped? It's indisputable that a lot more murders would take place.
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They give them cars. Frankly, that scares me more than the thought of one having a gun.

Besides, there's nothing going on on campus that doesn't happen off campus in bar districts. And we haven't seen and incredible rise in bar fight related murders.
 
Cassie said:
I love guns, I've got my first gun when I was 10 yrs old. I do not, however, want to go to a school where the students are allowed to carry guns. Most people have no sense of personal responsibility and I am not inclined to believe they'd practice any responsibility with a gun either. Shit.. we've had to make fucking laws in this country to get people to put their guns away if they have children in their homes.

I don't think anyone is advocating arming the entire school (are you?) A few intensely trained individuals, who are willing to have regular drug and alcohol screenings, who also are serious students, would make much more sense than allowing the entire student body to carry weapons. Or the schools could create their own police force, with armed trained officers, who are not part of the student body, in every building.

If the students are allowed to carry weapons, and they injure someone, who will the parents of the injured sue? Not the student with the gun, that's chump change.
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Well, I took Techman's post to be a categorical rejection of gun control, implying that if the general population had been allowed to be armed on campus, the incident would have been less severe.
Techman said:
Everyone will be screaming "more gun control!" but it's precisely the result of extensive gun control laws already in place that there are 30+ students dead...nobody was allowed, due to federal, state, local and no doubt on-campus gun regulations, to be armed...so a lone insane gun wielder can have free range.
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I think it's foolish to assume that more guns = more security. The kind of gun presence you're advocating, Cassie, contra Techman, is highly controlled. VT has its own armed campus police. What's a reasonable extension of this security policy? Student marshals? Metal detectors? a guard on each floor of each building?
 
Sarek said:
Possibly. But instead, a lot of unarmed citizens got killed.



They give them cars. Frankly, that scares me more than the thought of one having a gun.

Besides, there's nothing going on on campus that doesn't happen off campus in bar districts. And we haven't seen and incredible rise in bar fight related murders.
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I'm not sure what you mean by your second point. You're not allowed to have concealed weapons in bars in Virginia, which is a form of gun control, which supposedly endangers everybody everywhere. Is there a rational argument for permitting the possession of concealed guns in bars?
 
Alex Buchet said:
I'm not sure what you mean by your second point. You're not allowed to have concealed weapons in bars in Virginia, which is a form of gun control, which supposedly endangers everybody everywhere. Is there a rational argument for permitting the possession of concealed guns in bars?
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Yeah. What if some Asian mental case comes in and starts shooting the place up?
 
Techman said:
Everyone will be screaming "more gun control!" but it's precisely the result of extensive gun control laws already in place that there are 30+ students dead...nobody was allowed, due to federal, state, local and no doubt on-campus gun regulations, to be armed...so a lone insane gun wielder can have free range.
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The only thing that would have happened if guns were allowed on campus is that this shooting would not be shocking to the American public because it would be a weekly event. Just imagine young drunk college kids with easy access to guns. A bad grade? BLAM! Relationship gone sour? BLAM! I'm drunk and I'm bored? BLAM! You Word Forgers are as far from rationalized thinking as a penguin in the Amazon rain forest is to its natural enviroment.
 
Just making lawful concealed carry allowable is not going to automatically produce a bunch of gun slingers. The states who currently have ccw are proof of that. The reality is many, many people could give a rats behind about firearms, they simply are not interested, and many people would not touch them with a 10 foot pole even if you gave them permission.



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bad dog said:
Just making lawful concealed carry allowable is not going to automatically produce a bunch of gun slingers. The states who currently have ccw are proof of that. The reality is many, many people could give a rats behind about firearms, they simply are not interested, and many people would not touch them with a 10 foot pole even if you gave them permission.



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Among the general population? No. Among irresponsible college kids? You bet. You will get 2 types to get them, the military crowd and the people who want people to think they are cool because they have one crowd. Its the latter that worries me.
 
Techman said:
Meaningless in a country where prvite citizens can't own guns.
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Understanding of the history of the UK gun ownership and legislation would really help you make a judgement on that.

I own a gun.
 
dogbert said:
Among the general population? No. Among irresponsible college kids? You bet. You will get 2 types to get them, the military crowd and the people who want people to think they are cool because they have one crowd. Its the latter that worries me.
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Exactly.
 
Tyrant said:
One of the teachers having a firearm seems much more reasonable than letting students have them.
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The teachers are academics, though, not police. You can't expect some engineering professor to also be capable of carrying a firearm in class and prepared to use it if necessary. The potential liability fir the school and individuals would be enormous.
 
They are also citizens. It's more and more painfully obvious that the purpose of the police is to protect the state and keep general order. Protecting the citizenry doesn't seem to be high on the list.

I can completely expect an engineering professor to be capable of having a firearm at his disposal and being prepared to use it if necessary.

What would have helped society in this case would be if guns were kept under a strict lock and key and accessible to responsible individuals.

But we're more worried about lawsuits than blood.
 
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