Martin Luther King: Sacred Cow

[Wisdom]

Slavery in Africa was the same as in America? They had large scale plantation farming?

 

[Eggs Mayonnaise]

I don't know anyone with a soul who actually would go so far as to "like" a fact like that.

"Better they were slaves here than slaves there" is exactly the kind of sidestepping I've seen throughout this whole thread. People haven't evolved to the point where you can make that statement and have it accepted, without adding whether or not you condone human slavery in general.

Is it also better that people are murdered in America than in other countries, because we make better knives and guns, and a zippy 911 system?

You belittle people who allow themselves to get disgusted over the sins of the past, and then make statements that are ripe for brand new disgust.

 

[The Question]

Slavery in Africa was the same as in America?

Did I say they performed the same tasks? Fucking moron. Intracontinental African slaves were used for three things, primarily; agriculture, domestic service and as harem stock (for females) or eunuched to guard harems (for males).

 

[Wisdom]

Did I say they performed the same tasks? Fucking moron. Intracontinental African slaves were used for three things, primarily; agriculture, domestic service and as harem stock (for females) or eunuched to guard harems (for males).

Well, you wrote that slavery in each place was "the same." But if the slaves are doing different things and living under different conditions, then it's not really "the same." No reason to get so worked up at a simple question.

 

[The Question]

I don't know anyone with a soul who actually would go so far as to "like" a fact like that.

No, no one "likes" that fact; but it's ignorance to disregard that fact.

"Better they were slaves here than slaves there" is exactly the kind of sidestepping I've seen throughout this whole thread. People haven't evolved to the point where you can make that statement and have it accepted, without adding whether or not you condone human slavery in general.

Then it's time people did evolve far enough to make distinctions between distinctly different concepts.

Is it also better that people are murdered in America than in other countries, because we make better knives and guns, and a zippy 911 system?

Apples and oranges.

You belittle people who allow themselves to get disgusted over the sins of the past, and then make statements that are ripe for brand new disgust.

No, I'm bemused by people who steal guilt. It isn't yours, Eggs. You didn't earn it. If you're that keen on feeling guilty for the plight of black people, either go inflict some plight on a black person, or put that guilt the fuck back where you found it. It isn't yours.

 

[The Question]

Well, you wrote that slavery in each place was "the same." But if the slaves are doing different things and living under different conditions, then it's not really "the same."

I see; so is it your opinion, then, that if blacks enslave blacks it doesn't really count as slavery? Or is it that you just don't see it as wrong if blacks do it to each other?

 

[Wisdom]

I see; so is it your opinion, then, that if blacks enslave blacks it doesn't really count as slavery? Or is it that you just don't see it as wrong if blacks do it to each other?

Slavery can be more or less humane depending on the conditions of the slavery. I don't see how you could reasonably infer that the race of the enslaver has any bearing.

Except, of course, by knowing that you're a racist.

 

[The Question]

Slavery can be more or less humane depending on the conditions of the slavery. I don't see how you could reasonably infer that the race of the enslaver has any bearing.

You haven't answered my question directly; that's telling. But let me see if I understand you fully, here, and you tell me if I've got this wrong:

You're essentially saying that slavery can be acceptable depending on how it's done.

 

[Wisdom]

You haven't answered my question directly; that's telling. But let me see if I understand you fully, here, and you tell me if I've got this wrong:

You're essentially saying that slavery can be acceptable depending on how it's done.

Your question was a stupid non sequitor, but I answered directly that the race of the enslaver is inconsequential.

You got it wrong. I'm saying that slavery can be Bad or Worse.

 

[Starship Coyote]

I've always found it amusing when people such as Eggs somehow imply that "we're" responsible for slavery.

Never owned a slave. Slavery in the US went away in 1865... a little before I was born.

But they (meaning people like Eggs) somehow feel guilty about the whole thing, and I think that speaks volumes as to their mentality.

Here's an interesting news item:

http://news.aol.com/topnews/articles/_a/lawmaker-under-fire-for-slavery-comment/20070117103209990001

RICHMOND, Va. (Jan. 16) - A state legislator said black people "should get over" slavery and questioned whether Jews should apologize "for killing Christ," drawing denunciations Tuesday from stunned colleagues.

Del. Frank D. Hargrove, 79, made his remarks in opposition to a measure that would apologize on the state's behalf to the descendants of slaves.

In an interview published Tuesday in The Daily Progress of Charlottesville, Hargrove said slavery ended nearly 140 years ago with the Civil War and added that "our black citizens should get over it."

The newspaper also quoted him as saying, "are we going to force the Jews to apologize for killing Christ?"

Black lawmakers swiftly denounced Hargrove's comments.

"When somebody tells me I should just get over slavery, I can only express my emotion by projecting that I am appalled, absolutely appalled," said Del. Dwight C. Jones, head of the Legislative Black Caucus.

Del. David L. Englin also criticized Hargrove's remarks, recalling that his grandparents were driven from their homes in Poland "by people who believed that as Jews, we killed Christ."

When Hargrove rose to speak, he told Englin he didn't care about Englin's religion. "I think your skin was a little too thin," Hargrove said as lawmakers gasped and groaned.

 

[The Question]

You got it wrong.

Oh, not hardly, son.

I'm saying that slavery can be Bad or Worse.

Then my original point stands. It was Bad here. It was (and since slavery has never been entirely eradicated in Africa, to this day continues to be) Worse there. Not least because of the simple fact that the descendants of African slaves continue to live in the midst of squalor, privation, decay, corruption and widespread slaughter. The descendants of American slaves have the opportunity to live like kings. Or course, not all of them choose to fulfill that opportunity.

That's not my problem, and it's not your problem, either.

 

[Mentalist]

And all I want to know is why people should not be granted the right to be judged on their individual merits as opposed to the singular criteria of the colour of their skin. And until someone can tell me otherwise the attitudes prevalant by so many on this forum continues to remain psudeo-articulated ranting without any definitive substance.


As for Cranky's accusation that I set up a straw man by mentioning the racist angle again. Here's a fucking clue:


This whole topic is a straw man argument to refute the previous discussion and by accusing me of such it is nothing short of a double negative.


Oh I feel it coming...



Yep..

 

[Wisdom]

Oh, not hardly, son.



Then my original point stands. It was Bad here. It was (and since slavery has never been entirely eradicated in Africa, to this day continues to be) Worse there. Not least because of the simple fact that the descendants of African slaves continue to live in the midst of squalor, privation, decay, corruption and widespread slaughter. The descendants of American slaves have the opportunity to live like kings. Or course, not all of them choose to fulfill that opportunity.

That's not my problem, and it's not your problem, either.

No. The conditions of slavery were worse here than they were there. It was pretty clear that this is what I was claiming. Why did you assume that the race of the enslaver had somethign to do eith it? You're pretty hung up on the whole race thing, aren't you?

 

[The Question]

I think I've been pretty clear about my own feelings; I don't hate people I haven't met. I'm perfectly willing to state openly that I hate the negative stereotypes various ethnic groups have earned, however, and I'm not going to waste my time with individuals who choose to personify those stereotypes.

 

[The Question]

No. The conditions of slavery were worse here than they were there.

Substantiate that.

It was pretty clear that this is what I was claiming. Why did you assume that the race of the enslaver had somethign to do eith it?

Because that was actually what was "pretty clear."

 

[Starship Coyote]

And all I want to know is why people should not be granted the right to be judged on their individual merits as opposed to the singular criteria of the colour of their skin.

Let's reverse the question and look at it this way: why should people be given the right to be judged on their individual merits?

Correllary question: who said skin color was the only criteria?

 

[Wisdom]

Substantiate that.



Because that was actually what was "pretty clear."

In your obsessive world view, no doubt it was. Most people assume things are about more than race.

 

[The Question]

In your obsessive world view, no doubt it was. Most people assume things are about more than race.

Most people ignore culture (which is what this is about, not race) as a factor altogether.

 

[Wisdom]

That's a non sequitor. Elaborate.

 

[The Question]

It's not a non sequitur, and elaboration has already been provided in preceding posts. Your ignorance != my problem, dickweed.