CaptainWacky
I want to smell dark matter
Because Vince is utterly insane?
Troll Kingdom
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
Wrestling?
- Thread starter CaptainWacky
- Start date
CaptainWacky
I want to smell dark matter
SO HOW ABOUT FASTLANE
Alberto Del Rio/Calisto was on the pre show for some reason even though it was better than most of the matches on the actual ppv. Maybe they're just trying to get people to watch the pre shows for some reason? I don't know. I liked how Del Rio tried to win by countout and he even set up his weird double stomp in the corner thing better than usual (and the one outside the ring was brutal.) Calisto didn't fuck up here like at RR so good for him!
Sasha and Becky vs Naomi and Tamina was good. Sasha is fucking great. YOU'D THINK she'd be in the title match at WM but who the fuck knows...
Owens/Ziggler was good. It had a slow build. I mean it's hard to take Ziggler seriously at all anymore since he always loses (and he did here!) but it was a very good match.
The six man with the Wyatts was just there. What the fuck even is Bray anymore? He seemed like he was going to feud with Lesnar but they've done nothing since. Ryback using CM Punk's knees in the corner surely was on purpose. DA BIG GUY.
Charlotte and Brie Bella was okay. Brie tried. She fucked some things up but the fans did get into her eventually. But she's no Sasha.
Jericho and AJ was good. They were a bit sloppy in places and I think it was because Jericho can't really keep up with Styles. But the right guy won and hopefully AJ moves on to having great matches with other people now.
The Edge and Christian and New Day thing was funny...until League of Nations came out and were boring. Then it just ended. Went way too long and I don't know what the point was. Are New Day faces now? Who knows.
R-Truth vs Curtis Axel. Why was this on ppv? WTF? Why didn't they do the US title match instead of a really long interview and then this?
Main event was entertaining when Lesnar was there. I liked the Ambrose/Lesnar interactions. But of course fucking Roman wins with a single spear like he always does and who gvies a fuck about Roman vs Triple H at WM? Another main event that's going to get no reaction. Is that really the best they can come up with?
Alberto Del Rio/Calisto was on the pre show for some reason even though it was better than most of the matches on the actual ppv. Maybe they're just trying to get people to watch the pre shows for some reason? I don't know. I liked how Del Rio tried to win by countout and he even set up his weird double stomp in the corner thing better than usual (and the one outside the ring was brutal.) Calisto didn't fuck up here like at RR so good for him!
Sasha and Becky vs Naomi and Tamina was good. Sasha is fucking great. YOU'D THINK she'd be in the title match at WM but who the fuck knows...
Owens/Ziggler was good. It had a slow build. I mean it's hard to take Ziggler seriously at all anymore since he always loses (and he did here!) but it was a very good match.
The six man with the Wyatts was just there. What the fuck even is Bray anymore? He seemed like he was going to feud with Lesnar but they've done nothing since. Ryback using CM Punk's knees in the corner surely was on purpose. DA BIG GUY.
Charlotte and Brie Bella was okay. Brie tried. She fucked some things up but the fans did get into her eventually. But she's no Sasha.
Jericho and AJ was good. They were a bit sloppy in places and I think it was because Jericho can't really keep up with Styles. But the right guy won and hopefully AJ moves on to having great matches with other people now.
The Edge and Christian and New Day thing was funny...until League of Nations came out and were boring. Then it just ended. Went way too long and I don't know what the point was. Are New Day faces now? Who knows.
R-Truth vs Curtis Axel. Why was this on ppv? WTF? Why didn't they do the US title match instead of a really long interview and then this?
Main event was entertaining when Lesnar was there. I liked the Ambrose/Lesnar interactions. But of course fucking Roman wins with a single spear like he always does and who gvies a fuck about Roman vs Triple H at WM? Another main event that's going to get no reaction. Is that really the best they can come up with?
The main problems with Fastlane for me was the continued burial of Bray Wyatt for a start. Exactly what is the point of Bray? His gimmick is losing at PPV's! You have a stable which has an interesting hook and great talent in it and then consistently bury them. He never wins anything which totally negates the character. Why take the Wyatt's seriously when they lose yet again. Ryback managed to injure Luke Harper in the process of this pointless shit match as well.
Sasha and Becky vs Naomi and Tamina: Sasha is great and smoking hot to boot. Match was decent.
Owens v Ziggler: What you would expect from these two. Intense battle.
Charlotte and Brie was aight. Was a decent match for the most part with a lame finish. Flair was drunk again. Sky still blue. Charlotte's lack of hips freaks me out a little bit.
Jericho and AJ was good, with some nice timed spots but yeah, it's clear Jericho hasn't got the pace anymore. He was blown up about 5 minutes into the match and as a result was a bit sloppy. Still managed to pull off a decent match because he's Jericho and he's against AJ who is quality. An Jericho vs Styles match circa 2005-6 would have been a barnstormer.
Edge and Christian always get me marking out but they have kind of turned into "cool dads" a bit. Nice casual racism as well! Their show after Fastlane was pretty crap but they did have the Shockmaster on and it was funny when Vince told Christian to check the internet to confirm that he hates him. It was very 90's MTV though...
Main Event told a good story. Thought that it was good up until Roman no selling three fucking chair shots (his body armour makes him look like a pussy as well) to go over clean on Ambrose. I'm going to say it now. The ME at WM will NOT just be a straight singles against Roman and Haitch. They will have to spice it up somehow. Wrestlemania is usually a smarky crowd and I can see this being shit on from a great height as it is.
Fastlane had some OK matches but nothing unexpected happened. This was a paint by the numbers PPV and as the go home PPV before WrestleMania you expect a lot more.
Sasha and Becky vs Naomi and Tamina: Sasha is great and smoking hot to boot. Match was decent.
Owens v Ziggler: What you would expect from these two. Intense battle.
Charlotte and Brie was aight. Was a decent match for the most part with a lame finish. Flair was drunk again. Sky still blue. Charlotte's lack of hips freaks me out a little bit.
Jericho and AJ was good, with some nice timed spots but yeah, it's clear Jericho hasn't got the pace anymore. He was blown up about 5 minutes into the match and as a result was a bit sloppy. Still managed to pull off a decent match because he's Jericho and he's against AJ who is quality. An Jericho vs Styles match circa 2005-6 would have been a barnstormer.
Edge and Christian always get me marking out but they have kind of turned into "cool dads" a bit. Nice casual racism as well! Their show after Fastlane was pretty crap but they did have the Shockmaster on and it was funny when Vince told Christian to check the internet to confirm that he hates him. It was very 90's MTV though...
Main Event told a good story. Thought that it was good up until Roman no selling three fucking chair shots (his body armour makes him look like a pussy as well) to go over clean on Ambrose. I'm going to say it now. The ME at WM will NOT just be a straight singles against Roman and Haitch. They will have to spice it up somehow. Wrestlemania is usually a smarky crowd and I can see this being shit on from a great height as it is.
Fastlane had some OK matches but nothing unexpected happened. This was a paint by the numbers PPV and as the go home PPV before WrestleMania you expect a lot more.
[youtube]PzDP3ltd8tA[/youtube]
*jumps off titantron*
So Shane is back *marked hard* and he's going to be fighting Undertaker in HIAC at WM. LOL OK?
This isn't going to happen is it? Shane will kill himself doing some stupid stunt. I really doubt they are going to have Taker eat another loss at WM and not to Shane so I guess he's not really coming back long term but this seems well and truly out of left field. I think they are getting worried about how lackluster this WM was sounding. There wasn't anything big to tune in to. This certainly qualified for that just for the spectacle. Thoughts?
*jumps off titantron*
So Shane is back *marked hard* and he's going to be fighting Undertaker in HIAC at WM. LOL OK?
This isn't going to happen is it? Shane will kill himself doing some stupid stunt. I really doubt they are going to have Taker eat another loss at WM and not to Shane so I guess he's not really coming back long term but this seems well and truly out of left field. I think they are getting worried about how lackluster this WM was sounding. There wasn't anything big to tune in to. This certainly qualified for that just for the spectacle. Thoughts?
CaptainWacky
I want to smell dark matter
I think they were going to do Lesnar/Wyatt at WM but changed their minds so Wyatt was left with nothing at Fastlane but watching his guys lose again. He'll probably just be in the Andre the Giant battle royal being tossed out out by Mojo Rawley or something.
I haven't watched the Edge and Chrstian show yet because I feared it would be embarrassing. I always loved Edge and Christian but I don't want them to end up like Foley...maybe I'll watch it sometime...
Shane. LOL. Meltzer reported that it would be "someone who isn't on the roster" and people started joking that it would be Shane. I thought it might have been The Rock somehow. But fucking Shane...remember the last time he wrestled against Orton and it was really shit. And that was like seven or eight years ago? I don't know how the fuck he's going to do a match with Old Man Undertaker. Unless they've been secretly rehearsing it for months or something. And what's with Shane being positioned as a face against Vince? Surely if he's wrestling Taker he needs to be a strong heel, not the plucky underdog we want to win and take the company back from his evil dad. Makes no sense.
I haven't watched the Edge and Chrstian show yet because I feared it would be embarrassing. I always loved Edge and Christian but I don't want them to end up like Foley...maybe I'll watch it sometime...
Shane. LOL. Meltzer reported that it would be "someone who isn't on the roster" and people started joking that it would be Shane. I thought it might have been The Rock somehow. But fucking Shane...remember the last time he wrestled against Orton and it was really shit. And that was like seven or eight years ago? I don't know how the fuck he's going to do a match with Old Man Undertaker. Unless they've been secretly rehearsing it for months or something. And what's with Shane being positioned as a face against Vince? Surely if he's wrestling Taker he needs to be a strong heel, not the plucky underdog we want to win and take the company back from his evil dad. Makes no sense.
CaptainWacky
I want to smell dark matter
I hope the guy with the "Roman is a wank pheasant" sign goes again.
CaptainWacky
I want to smell dark matter
So they're doing a fake broken nose thing with Roman and claiming he had nasal surgery, all to get him sympathy. The problem is no one gives a shit about him and everyone's just replaying to the WWE's tweet with "lol we saw him use a blood capsule."
CaptainWacky
I want to smell dark matter
Emma is so awesome on NXT.
Gagh
Χριστόφορος
Good to see Shane back - I think he'll surprise us with how good he is - but I too am confused about the Taker/Cell meaning. I think it might work as a match, but like most things in WWE at the moment, I feel it is devoid of any real logic. WWE have almost tried to do away with Heel/Face as a meaning. They seemingly want us all to cheer some of the Heels, and then throw two faces together in a match like this.
CaptainWacky
I want to smell dark matter
I hope The Mean Street Posse do a run-in at WM.
Last monday's Raw was so bad. Undertaker taking 25 minutes to get to the ring just to say "lol you are responsible for murdering Shane" to Vince and then slowly walking out again was beyond stupid. Literally nothing to be said about WHY Taker would do anything Vince says in Kayfabe. They have literally no interest in having any internal consistency and it pisses me off.
CaptainWacky
I want to smell dark matter
I still haven't watched a new RAW for a long time. Even when I think of maybe watching them a month behind on the Network I just end up going back to my Raw/Nitro 96 rewatch instead. I'm up to the night after Survivor Series 1996. Eric Bischoff just turned heel and joined the NWO on Nitro, Steve Austin and Mankind had a great match on RAW. You don't get that kind of energy anymore.
Wrote a bit of a rant on /woo/ earlier. Copy/pasting it here.
There is not going to be anything groundbreaking that I have to say and it's all been said before but why don't they see that the product has been dying a slow and long drawn out death for over a decade now and oh, I don't know. Fix it?
There are so many common sense things I can think of to change it up and make the product fresh and appealing to casuals and the IWC alike that they blatantly ignore.
OK, I know the short answer is that Vince is clinically insane but still...
Three hour RAWs are overkill and everybody knows it.
You cannot sustain interest in a weekly wrestling show that is as long as the director's cut of Lord of the Rings every monday.
It's painfully obvious how much they stretch time out already and it just drags on forever. Back in the 2 hour attitude era everything felt far more pacy and cohesive. It has to be 2 hours again.
Yes, you lose that extra hour of advertising but it WILL balance out when you start to bring demo's back for the superior 2 hours you are putting out every week. This is a non-negotiable thing that has to happen to get the product back on track. The three hour shows feel so loose and have so much dead space within them. By cutting it down by an hour you start to tighten up everything and bring energy back.
Advertising is rampant and incredibly intrusive.
If RAW was a website it would be full of pop ups constantly bombarding the screen. Sure, I know they have to pay the bills, but at the very least the idea of putting ads in between matches should be totally abolished. If a match isn't important enough to not stick ads in the middle of then why should anybody give a single solitary fuck?
Write a cohesive story that weaves through the show.
This is something that has been missing for ages. The backstage doesn't feel like one big locker room like it should. Everything is a segmented mess that exists within its own bubble. Nothing overlaps or flows. There is no danger or suspense because everything is its own neat little program. This doesn't mean reinventing the wheel. Individual feuds continue but at least make it feel like the landscape of what is happening has an overarching effect.
Treat the product more like a shoot.
Now, this doesn't mean going back to the Attitude era or everyone starting to blade again but it does mean actually making a structure that is internally consistent. (More on that in a bit) Have ladder competitions, ranking matches and make the titles properly tiered. The Intercontinental belt could easily be important again if they took their product a bit more seriously. Just because *wink* *wink* we know it isn't real is no excuse to not take the onscreen kayfabe world more seriously. They give no fucks about continuity or logic and so the audience doesn't care either. Bring back The King of the Ring, have wins and losses feel like they matter in where the talent is heading etc. It's not rocket science.
Let the talent be talented.
We all know how scripted and micro managed WWE is and how much it hurts talent. There isn't a lot to say that hasn't bean beaten to death already but they need to take the reigns (get it?) off their performers. This bleeds into everything. Let the show be more organic and wild. Remember those old RAW's where everything felt slightly unhinged and alive? Doesn't it all feel too clean, sanitized and flat now? There is no feeling of electricity that makes the viewer think something unexpected is right around the corner and that is due to how micro managed everything is.
It's all coming off the page to be played flatly to the crowd and so again nobody cares. Let the talent get over on their own! Don't stand in their way. You will NEVER be able to create the next big thing. All the biggest stars in the biz were over because they got themselves over. The WWE needs to be a guiding and nurturing hand for talent to springboard off. Not a dictatorial machine that picks and chooses who they WANT to be over. This should be a meritocracy. Let the people decide.
Internal consistency:
Touched on this before but let me reiterate how important it is: TREAT THE PRODUCT LIKE IT'S REAL and write the show within the rules of the world...or 'universe,' whatever you want to call it! They should be beholden to the kayfabe world they exist in. Always.
You HAVE to defend that title within 30 days. So what if your talent got injured and you still want the belt on him/her. You are beholden to the internal consistency of the world so you have to make it work. The writing should be pushed by the kayfabe world, not written despite of it. This is a huge thing that they utterly ignore and that would make everything immediately better. Game of Thrones exists within its own internal consistency. Walking Dead, Better Call Saul...the freaking daytime soaps do it better for Christ's sake, etc.
Stop forcing me to lose the suspension of disbelief because you're too damn lazy to write within the world. Kayfabe isn't dead because everyone is savvy to the business. It's dead because they don't respect it enough to be beholden to it.
Attitude era?
No, you don't need to return to the Attitude era but there does need to be some realisation that kiddifying the product too much will not leave you with enough of an audience to sustain the product. Watch the hype and passion during the aforementioned Attitude era. That edgier, organic more RAW product became part of the casual conversation. People were discussing the show around the water cooler. It was far from perfect, so don't think I have rose tinted glasses, but it was relevant to the casual discussion because it had more compelling off the wall storytelling. Totally insane and utterly stupid as well at times but all the same. Bland and safe is the deathnail for professional wrestling.
They need to take cues from other shows that they are in competition with. I mentioned Game of Thrones and Walking Dead before because these shows are their competition for that 18-35 demo. I think it's safe to say that neither of those shows are too kiddy friendly. They do have leeway to push the product to a more mature level. Shit, if they are so terrified of losing the little jimmies then segment some of the less mature stuff onto its own show. Could work.
I think I've ranted long enough. Well done if you actually got to the end. I don't think fixing the product is that hard but for whatever reason they are too scared to move from their mediocre spot incase it all blows up in their face. The WWE is killing themselves.
Anything I missed? Agree disagree?
There is not going to be anything groundbreaking that I have to say and it's all been said before but why don't they see that the product has been dying a slow and long drawn out death for over a decade now and oh, I don't know. Fix it?
There are so many common sense things I can think of to change it up and make the product fresh and appealing to casuals and the IWC alike that they blatantly ignore.
OK, I know the short answer is that Vince is clinically insane but still...
Three hour RAWs are overkill and everybody knows it.
You cannot sustain interest in a weekly wrestling show that is as long as the director's cut of Lord of the Rings every monday.
It's painfully obvious how much they stretch time out already and it just drags on forever. Back in the 2 hour attitude era everything felt far more pacy and cohesive. It has to be 2 hours again.
Yes, you lose that extra hour of advertising but it WILL balance out when you start to bring demo's back for the superior 2 hours you are putting out every week. This is a non-negotiable thing that has to happen to get the product back on track. The three hour shows feel so loose and have so much dead space within them. By cutting it down by an hour you start to tighten up everything and bring energy back.
Advertising is rampant and incredibly intrusive.
If RAW was a website it would be full of pop ups constantly bombarding the screen. Sure, I know they have to pay the bills, but at the very least the idea of putting ads in between matches should be totally abolished. If a match isn't important enough to not stick ads in the middle of then why should anybody give a single solitary fuck?
Write a cohesive story that weaves through the show.
This is something that has been missing for ages. The backstage doesn't feel like one big locker room like it should. Everything is a segmented mess that exists within its own bubble. Nothing overlaps or flows. There is no danger or suspense because everything is its own neat little program. This doesn't mean reinventing the wheel. Individual feuds continue but at least make it feel like the landscape of what is happening has an overarching effect.
Treat the product more like a shoot.
Now, this doesn't mean going back to the Attitude era or everyone starting to blade again but it does mean actually making a structure that is internally consistent. (More on that in a bit) Have ladder competitions, ranking matches and make the titles properly tiered. The Intercontinental belt could easily be important again if they took their product a bit more seriously. Just because *wink* *wink* we know it isn't real is no excuse to not take the onscreen kayfabe world more seriously. They give no fucks about continuity or logic and so the audience doesn't care either. Bring back The King of the Ring, have wins and losses feel like they matter in where the talent is heading etc. It's not rocket science.
Let the talent be talented.
We all know how scripted and micro managed WWE is and how much it hurts talent. There isn't a lot to say that hasn't bean beaten to death already but they need to take the reigns (get it?) off their performers. This bleeds into everything. Let the show be more organic and wild. Remember those old RAW's where everything felt slightly unhinged and alive? Doesn't it all feel too clean, sanitized and flat now? There is no feeling of electricity that makes the viewer think something unexpected is right around the corner and that is due to how micro managed everything is.
It's all coming off the page to be played flatly to the crowd and so again nobody cares. Let the talent get over on their own! Don't stand in their way. You will NEVER be able to create the next big thing. All the biggest stars in the biz were over because they got themselves over. The WWE needs to be a guiding and nurturing hand for talent to springboard off. Not a dictatorial machine that picks and chooses who they WANT to be over. This should be a meritocracy. Let the people decide.
Internal consistency:
Touched on this before but let me reiterate how important it is: TREAT THE PRODUCT LIKE IT'S REAL and write the show within the rules of the world...or 'universe,' whatever you want to call it! They should be beholden to the kayfabe world they exist in. Always.
You HAVE to defend that title within 30 days. So what if your talent got injured and you still want the belt on him/her. You are beholden to the internal consistency of the world so you have to make it work. The writing should be pushed by the kayfabe world, not written despite of it. This is a huge thing that they utterly ignore and that would make everything immediately better. Game of Thrones exists within its own internal consistency. Walking Dead, Better Call Saul...the freaking daytime soaps do it better for Christ's sake, etc.
Stop forcing me to lose the suspension of disbelief because you're too damn lazy to write within the world. Kayfabe isn't dead because everyone is savvy to the business. It's dead because they don't respect it enough to be beholden to it.
Attitude era?
No, you don't need to return to the Attitude era but there does need to be some realisation that kiddifying the product too much will not leave you with enough of an audience to sustain the product. Watch the hype and passion during the aforementioned Attitude era. That edgier, organic more RAW product became part of the casual conversation. People were discussing the show around the water cooler. It was far from perfect, so don't think I have rose tinted glasses, but it was relevant to the casual discussion because it had more compelling off the wall storytelling. Totally insane and utterly stupid as well at times but all the same. Bland and safe is the deathnail for professional wrestling.
They need to take cues from other shows that they are in competition with. I mentioned Game of Thrones and Walking Dead before because these shows are their competition for that 18-35 demo. I think it's safe to say that neither of those shows are too kiddy friendly. They do have leeway to push the product to a more mature level. Shit, if they are so terrified of losing the little jimmies then segment some of the less mature stuff onto its own show. Could work.
I think I've ranted long enough. Well done if you actually got to the end. I don't think fixing the product is that hard but for whatever reason they are too scared to move from their mediocre spot incase it all blows up in their face. The WWE is killing themselves.
Anything I missed? Agree disagree?
CaptainWacky
I want to smell dark matter
That pretty much sums it up!
Here's something unrelated but also really dumb: The Curb Stomp Has Been Edited Out Of The New NXT DVD
Here's something unrelated but also really dumb: The Curb Stomp Has Been Edited Out Of The New NXT DVD
How much more dangerous is it really compared to other moves? If kids are going to start pulling off moves then there is always going to be a big risk of injury or even death in some cases. It's a shame because that curbstomp against Orton at Mania last year was awesome.
In other news.... WRESTLEMANIA IS OFFICIALLY SAVED!
The New Day to ride on unicorns at WrestleMania? - Wrestling News
CaptainWacky
I want to smell dark matter
It's no different than a DDT bump or a Pedigree. Certainly safer than the Styles Clash which has literally broken necks. Some people think it's because the name "Curb Stomp" but it wasn't even named that when he was in NXT.
CaptainWacky
I want to smell dark matter
I'M SIGNING UP NOW!
Also just started thinking about this.
[youtube]gLnGnD92W68[/youtube]
Also just started thinking about this.
[youtube]gLnGnD92W68[/youtube]
I remember that. Deffo not all Haitchs fault. The guy clearly thought he was going for a tigerbomb. How he wasn't aware of the pedigree though I'll never know. They are both responsible to some extent for letting this happen.