Understanding Anti-Semitism: Why Do People Dislike Jews?

[The Question]

So you're saying that consumers shouldn't have a choice? You're saying that a virtual monopoly, as long as it's Jewish in origin, is acceptable?

 

[The Question]

Funny, you sure look like Adam.:bwahaha:

DO NOT!!! :wah!:

Unfortunatley, I'm beginning to think that old Uncle Adolph had a point.:twisted:

No! Like I said before, he didn't make that shit up -- he just acted on it without regard for the Law Of The 7 Ps -- Proper Prior Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance. He was hasty and unlucky, and as those facts became apparent to him, his belfry rapidly got clogged with bats.

 

[Anubis]

Not unless you're making it.Given that I don't know where you live, I have no idea what to recommend. If it genuinely disturbs you that your ketchup is kosher, you can start making it yourself.

Really? How about you produce your own gas, from scratch. How about you computer? Did you make it? Would you be offended if I proclaimed myself as a person of authority over computers and decided to stamp every single motherboard with a Chadarnook insignia, and made you pay extra for it? Of course you wouldn't be offended. You bought it by your own will, after all.

Have you even been looking around at off-brands, or are you just complaining that Hunt and Heinz both have that little (U) on their bottles?

That's exactly why I'm complaining.

 

[Anubis]

My question is not purely formal. It is not rhetorical. Its purpose is not to show astonishment. My question is a question. It is necessary to respond to it.

 

[jack]

resurrecunt actually managed to cheapen this thread with his baseless accusation.

It's very easy to throw a blanket over a certain group of people and call them this or that (especially if they're white.) It's much harder to actually debate people.

All of you, who have watched the video and who might disagree with me and The Question silently admit defeat by not voicing your concerns.

The Holocaust did not happen. Got anything to say about it? Speak now, or forever hold your peace.

I'll never hold my peace about WWII. Too much authentic photographic documentation.

You certainly have the right to deny it existed, although I'm not sure what the final point would be. Like what, the Jews get a free social sympathy fuck because they were singled out and slaughtered like cattle? They have some special status because of our collective world guilt?

Otherwise what difference would it make?

 

[jack]

there isn't a store brand I know that's got a U or a K on it, just for the sake of argument I checked. national brands yes, generic no

This Jew Tax rhetoric is a straw man rhetoric, perhaps even a red herring. You're saying you have no choice? That the only products you can buy have this symbol on it that you have to pay for, and that's somehow unfair, because clearly the symbol is ubiquitous?

IMHO it's a totally bullshit argument. Go puree some tomatoes and add a little sugar if you REALLY mean it. Every time you buy a product you don't support and then make some complaint like you have to buy it, or you have no choice you're a hypocrite, because you ALWAYS have a choice about whether to spend your money or not on anything.

 

[TJHairball]

Really? How about you produce your own gas, from scratch. How about you computer? Did you make it? Would you be offended if I proclaimed myself as a person of authority over computers and decided to stamp every single motherboard with a Chadarnook insignia, and made you pay extra for it? Of course you wouldn't be offended. You bought it by your own will, after all.

Ketchup is remarkably easier to produce than gas, and nonkosher ingredients for it can be found... in my kitchen. That's right, in my kitchen. Right now.

Now, what's been done here isn't quite the same. If you arbitrarily mandated that all motherboards must carry the Chadarnook stamp, and left horse's heads in the beds of every manufacturer who doesn't comply, that's one thing. I would mind, and encourage appropriate legal action against you, which would be quite applicable.

However, what we have here is a purely voluntary measure that Heinz, Hunt, etc etc etc, consider a sharp business move to reach a few million extra consumers. You want them to stop doing it? Make them aware they'll lose business by doing it... but I don't think they'll take you any more seriously than I am. For crying out loud, it's ketchup you're complaining about.

It's a measure that produces no increase in the price that I have noticed, and rinky-dink off-brand manufacturers rarely include it. Or, for that matter (as the (U) site warns Jewish consumers) simply stick a letter K or U (to which there is no trademark) on the package without any certification whatsoever.

For that matter, as my own cupboard demonstrates, the vast majority of packaged food isn't kosher certified - and there are a bajillion (ok, 400 or so) different agencies claiming to certify for it.

You may as well simply complain that capitalism discriminates against you by giving businesses a reason to hike the price - because it'll make them more money. That is all that most of the manufacturers in question care about. No conspiracy, no hidden monopoly... nothing.

 

[TJHairball]

So you're saying that consumers shouldn't have a choice? You're saying that a virtual monopoly, as long as it's Jewish in origin, is acceptable?

Customers have plenty of choice in this particular regard. "Virtual monopoly?" Laughable given the details of the situation. Like I said, look through my cupboard. Roughly 10%.

Ironic that you should mention it, though, since the real effective limitations on customers' choice has absolutely nothing to do with kosher concerns.

And what Jack said about generics seems dead on. I have some real stick-of-nowhere store brands around here that I don't even see two hundred miles down the road, and none of them had any (U)s on them.

 

[jack]

But you know, the idea that the Holocaust didn't exist at all is rather pathetic. I have an uncle you'd be surprised to talk to. He lived in Dachau, Bergen-Belsen and Auschwitz for 4 years and escaped safely. He survived in the camps by being a gofer. He left the camps every day and black marekted cigarettes, drugs and women for the camp officers. He's got a tattoo and lots and lots of photographs of the insides of the camps he lived and worked in. I've seen the pictures, I've listened to the stories. Not once was there ever any evidence that he was part of any information spreading conspiracy, and his stories match up quite well to the official rhetoric, as do the pictures, some of which are beyond shocking.

He worked the showers and he worked in two crematoria. He has a lot to say about your "denial" since he was actually there, something none of you ever were.

 

[Anubis]

I'll never hold my peace about WWII. Too much authentic photographic documentation.

The photos show victims of war. They have been addressed.

You certainly have the right to deny it existed,

The burden of proof is not on me, and terminology such as "deny" reinforces the notion that it is.

although I'm not sure what the final point would be. Like what, the Jews get a free social sympathy fuck because they were singled out and slaughtered like cattle? They have some special status because of our collective world guilt?

I believe there is a double-standard.

Otherwise what difference would it make?

Forced to choose from among several Allied war propaganda lies, he chose to defend the fire lie instead of the boiling water, gassing, or electrocution lies. In 1956, when he published his testimony in Yiddish, the fire lie was still alive in certain circles. This lie is the origin of the term Holocaust. Today there is no longer a single historian who believes that Jews were burned alive. The myths of the boiling water and of electrocution have also disappeared. Only the gas remains.

* The gassing lie was spread by the Americans.

* The lie that Jews were killed by boiling water or steam (specifically at Treblinka) was spread by the Poles.

* The electrocution lie was spread by the Soviets."

Yes, these are all Holocaust lies.

"The fire lie is of undetermined origin. It is in a sense as old as war propaganda or hate propaganda, just like the false assertion of human (Jewish) skin being used to make lamp shades. In his memoir, Night, which is a version of his earlier Yiddish testimony, Wiesel reports that at Auschwitz there was one flaming ditch for the adults and another one for babies. He writes: ‘Not far from us, flames were leaping from a ditch, gigantic flames. They were burning something. A lorry drew up at the pit and delivered its load ‑ little children. Babies! Yes, I saw it ‑ saw it with my own eyes...those children in the flames.'"

None of this ever happened. And, yet, such lies have earned Wiesel the Nobel Peace Prize, and made it "anti‑Semitic" and even illegal to simply tell the truth about the Holocaust.

http://www.israelect.com/reference/WillieMartin/HOLOHOAX.htm

Discouragement of Nationalism: In terms of political blackmail, however, the allegation that Six Million Jews died during the Second World War has much far-reaching implications for the people of Britain and Europe than simply be advantages it has gained for the Jews. Here one comes in the crux of the question: Why the Big Lie? What is its purpose?

In the first pace, it has been used quite unscrupulously to discourage any form of nationalism. Should the people of Britain or any other European country attempt to assert their patriotism and preserve their national integrity in an age when the very existence of nation-states is threatened, they are immediately branded asâ€new-Nazis.â€

Because, of course, Nazism was nationalism, and we all know what happened then; Six Million Jews exterminated! So long as the myth is perpetuated, peoples everywhere will remain in bondage to, the need for international tolerance and understanding will be hammered home by the United Nations until nationhood itself, the very guarantee of freedom, is abolished.

A classic example of the use of the “Six Million†as an anti-national weapon appears in Manvell and Frank’s book, “The Incomparable Crime†(London, 1967), which deals with “Genocide in the Twentieth Century.†Anyone with an ounce of pride in being British will be surprised by the vicious attack made on the British Empire in this book.

 

[Anubis]

He worked the showers and he worked in two crematoria. He has a lot to say about your "denial" since he was actually there, something none of you ever were.

I had already mentioned earlier that I visited Auschwitz. Obviously, I wasn't jailed. Does my visiting it help my holocaust-expert credentials?

However, what we have here is a purely voluntary measure that Heinz, Hunt, etc etc etc, consider a sharp business move to reach a few million extra consumers. You want them to stop doing it? Make them aware they'll lose business by doing it... but I don't think they'll take you any more seriously than I am. For crying out loud, it's ketchup you're complaining about.

http://www.ukar.org/tax02.html

You may as well simply complain that capitalism discriminates against you by giving businesses a reason to hike the price - because it'll make them more money. That is all that most of the manufacturers in question care about. No conspiracy, no hidden monopoly... nothing.

False analogy.

 

[DarthSikle]

Like I said, look through my cupboard. Roughly 10%.

You looked through your whole cupboard?? You were trolled!!

 

[Anubis]

You looked through your whole cupboard?? You were trolled!!

And so was I.

I should have foreseen that the discussion would shift from the existance of the Kosher Tax towards it's impact. Regardless of how much it costs, it represents unfair taxation without representation. If I ran around pinching random people and got charged with assualt, my saying that it didn't hurt or didn't draw blood wouldn't be a valid defense.

 

[The Question]

I'll never hold my peace about WWII. Too much authentic photographic documentation.

I don't know how you can still hold to that, Jack. It's been pretty thoroughly explained (both in the video and in the threads that have already discussed it) that where the photographs aren't manipulations or outright frauds, they don't actually show what it's claimed they show.

You certainly have the right to deny it existed, although I'm not sure what the final point would be. Like what, the Jews get a free social sympathy fuck because they were singled out and slaughtered like cattle? They have some special status because of our collective world guilt?

Basically, yes. It's a very large and very well-crafted guilt trip at this point -- as stated before, it didn't start out that way, but that was the use it's been put to since the end of WW2.

 

[The Question]

Not once was there ever any evidence that he was part of any information spreading conspiracy, and his stories match up quite well to the official rhetoric, as do the pictures, some of which are beyond shocking.

Again, we've been over this -- the conspiracy wasn't launched at the level of the inmates in the camps -- they were as much dupes of it as the people to whom they related the stories they had been told. They were given false information, and viewed the events they actually saw within the framework of that false information.

Your uncle didn't lie -- he was simply wrong.

He worked the showers and he worked in two crematoria. He has a lot to say about your "denial" since he was actually there, something none of you ever were.

Well, he can actually have been there all he likes -- that doesn't mean that he's right when he agrees with a story that violates known science.

 

[jack]

But how do you dupe murder?

 

[The Question]

^^That's rather nonsensical.

The dupery (lol) comes in when you convince someone that murders happened which didn't, or which weren't murders.

You're taking the conclusion as the premise, Jack, which is what most people do.

"The Nazis murdered six million Jews. We know this because six million Jews were murdered."

Well, no, we don't know that. In fact, we do know some things which pretty directly contradict that, and other things which merely render the claim highly suspect.

 

[jack]

I'm not saying that at all, nor is that my rhetoric. My opinion seems steeped in evidence. There wasn't Photoshop in 1941. I'm talking about his pictures, and his stories.

By the way, I don't "hold" to anything. This is a discussion, and my opinion is different than yours, and while I may disagree with you, I enjoy the discussion. Your points and evidence are interesting and compelling. I understand why you view the evidence the way you do.

But, despite your documentation of fakery, much real evidence exists to support the idea that these people were murdered, slaughtered actually. IBM is probably the biggest obfuscator since they are one of the most complicit in structuring the genocide efficiently.

I challenge you to refute the evidence of the Hollerith Punchcard system, it's sale and maintainance, it's purpose and what the records that exist still actually mean.

It's a sticky little wicket, really. I mean...we can argue about people's perceptions forever, but we can't refute a punch card. There were no hanging chads in 1942.

 

[The Question]

I'm not saying that at all, nor is that my rhetoric. My opinion seems steeped in evidence.

Yeah, but the thing is, Jack -- you seem to have a lot lower standard for what you consider evidence than I do.

There wasn't Photoshop in 1941.

Photographic manipulation didn't have its birth with Photoshop. Come on, now.

I'm talking about his pictures, and his stories.

But do the pictures show gas chambers? Did he ever tell you any stories about seeing -- actually watching, with his own eyes -- large groups of people murdered in them?

By the way, I don't "hold" to anything. This is a discussion, and my opinion is different than yours, and while I may disagree with you, I enjoy the discussion. Your points and evidence are interesting and compelling. I understand why you view the evidence the way you do.

But, despite your documentation of fakery, much real evidence exists to support the idea that these people were murdered, slaughtered actually.

I don't think so -- in my opinion, if there was real evidence out there that was solid and unambiguous, there would never have been any reason to try to fabricate evidence.

I challenge you to refute the evidence of the Hollerith Punchcard system, it's sale and maintainance, it's purpose and what the records that exist still actually mean.

What is the Hollerith Punchcard system evidence of, exactly? Is it evidence that the deportation of Jews from Germany was a large-scale, organized effort? Because it doesn't follow that it must be evidence of anything more than that.

It's a sticky little wicket, really. I mean...we can argue about people's perceptions forever, but we can't refute a punch card. There were no hanging chads in 1942.

No, you can't refute a punch card -- but you can't make it into evidence of something it wasn't evidence of, either.

 

[jack]

But do the pictures show gas chambers?

Dead bodies in them actually, he was one of the janitors.

Did he ever tell you any stories about seeing -- actually watching, with his own eyes -- large groups of people murdered in them?

He was actually complicit in several, and witnessed 50 murders.

His pictures are not doctored, he's just a warehouse worker that didn't want to die is all. he made his decision back then that he would survive no matter what.