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Understanding Anti-Semitism: Why Do People Dislike Jews?

EDIT
But do the pictures show gas chambers?

Dead bodies in them actually, he was one of the janitors.

Did he ever tell you any stories about seeing -- actually watching, with his own eyes -- large groups of people murdered in them?

He was actually complicit in several, and witnessed around 50 murders. This is a general number, not exact. I didn't want to cheapen it by saying 47 or something equally ridiculous

His pictures are not doctored, he's just a warehouse worker that didn't want to die is all. he made his decision back then that he would survive no matter what.

About the punchcard system, what those cards actually show is that the jews on them were sent to various camps within Germany, each card specifically locates each jew completely. Not one card shows a deportation of any kind, and that's on paper, Dan.

Those cards are remarkeable in that they are as efficient for storing and disseminating specific data on anything as any modern computer. In this case, the Reich used them to categorize, tally and track where and when with each indiuvidual jew they had in their possession. This isn't fantasy, this is fact. These cards still exist, and there are even codes for the termination after transit to the camps.
 
jack said:
EDIT
But do the pictures show gas chambers?

Dead bodies in them actually, he was one of the janitors.
Click to expand...

Got copies? And are these pictures of bodies in the room there are photos of today that was alleged to be a gas chamber? The one with notably non-airtight doors? Or were these pictures of bodies in the Krematoria?

Did he ever tell you any stories about seeing -- actually watching, with his own eyes -- large groups of people murdered in them?

He was actually complicit in several, and witnessed around 50 murders. This is a general number, not exact. I didn't want to cheapen it by saying 47 or something equally ridiculous
Click to expand...

Well, why hasn't he spoken up? Why isn't he on the record? Or is he?

His pictures are not doctored, he's just a warehouse worker that didn't want to die is all. he made his decision back then that he would survive no matter what.
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A picture doesn't have to be doctored to be misrepresented. If I went to a thrift store, gathered up all the shoes, took a picture of them and said they were taken from illegal aliens that were shot and buried in mass graves in the desert, I can misrepresent that photograph all to hell without having to doctor it one bit.

About the punchcard system, what those cards actually show is that the jews on them were sent to various camps within Germany, each card specifically locates each jew completely. Not one card shows a deportation of any kind, and that's on paper, Dan.
Click to expand...

And yet -- even according to what you just said -- none of them show anything more than individual Jews being sent to camps. They don't address what happened to them once they got there.

Those cards are remarkeable in that they are as efficient for storing and disseminating specific data on anything as any modern computer. In this case, the Reich used them to categorize, tally and track where and when with each indiuvidual jew they had in their possession. This isn't fantasy, this is fact. These cards still exist, and there are even codes for the termination after transit to the camps.
Click to expand...

What codes for termination would that be? And how do you it's a code for the termination of the subject being tracked, rather than a code to indicate the termination of tracking?
 
Now, this is good -- this is something I've been looking for, actually -- a lead to a SOLID number.

According to the Hollerith cards, how many Jews were sent to the camps?
 
Well, that lead has so far come up empty. For such a thorough and exacting information-keeping system, it seems no one can reproduce (from the "extensive evidence") an exact number of Jews sent to the concentration camps, let alone an exact number of those "terminated", as recorded by the Hollerith system.

It appears to be yet another ghost -- a factual thing misrepresented to be evidence of something it is not evidence of.
 
What are you talking about? I'm at work and the book is at home. If you want to get into it with the book, I'm more than willing, you'll just need to be patient.

You've been saying right along that it was deportation that happened to the Jews, not the camps. No backpedaling allowed, because I will prove you wrong. They were sent to the camps, not deported.

The cards will prove this argument conclusively, but I'm going to wait iuntil what I cite is not a misrepresentation of what the actual evidence purports.
 
And be careful when you start talking about the gas chambers, because you may get tripped up on that, especially when you see what the punchcards reveal about those rooms.

4400 people on a good day they could kill in those rooms alone.
 
jack said:
You've been saying right along that it was deportation that happened to the Jews, not the camps. No backpedaling allowed, because I will prove you wrong. They were sent to the camps, not deported.
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I never said they weren't sent to the camps. They were sent to the camps, for three purposes: Incarceration, forced labor and deportation -- some camps were labor camps, some prison camps, and some were transit camps. None of them, however, were extermination camps.

The cards will prove this argument conclusively, but I'm going to wait iuntil what I cite is not a misrepresentation of what the actual evidence purports.
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Yes, I'm sure the cards will prove that the Jewish people of Germany were rounded up and sent to camps. They do not prove, however, that six million Jews were exterminated.
 
jack said:
And be careful when you start talking about the gas chambers, because you may get tripped up on that, especially when you see what the punchcards reveal about those rooms.

4400 people on a good day they could kill in those rooms alone.
Click to expand...

See the link in my sig.
 
Where are the deportation records Dan? Where were these millions of people deported? Who took them in, because to be deported, they have to be deported somewhere?

Back it up. Because there must be some record somewhere of such a mass deportation. I certainly have never seen a shred of it anywhere, and the punchcard recors said what "typhus" right?

There was no mass exodus of jews from germany TO anywhere. Prove otherwise. Saying you don't have to simply means there isn't any evidence to back it up, other than your frustration over the Holocaust being some sort of gruesome double standard that's being perpetrated on the world.

Why is this 6 million or nothing rhetoric so imprtant to you? That's what I don't understand.

Then there's the rhetoric of intent from their leader himself.

Copies of the pics, sure I'll digh them up..I've still got some around somewhere, and as far as whether orr not my uncle came "forward", I assure you he's not interested in changing anyone's mind about whether or not what he experienced was actually what he experienced.

Now...deportation records please. I want to see the proof that this was just a big round up and expulsion.
 
And you're kidding about that message board link proving anything.

Talk about bullshit science, whoever posted that "wet" theory knows absolutely nothing about the gas in it's dry form.

Holocaust theorists are like Creationists in that sense. How you make "Intelligent Design" out of the kind of mass slaughter that really took place is a little beyond comprehension.
 
So tell me, this evidence you site about the chambers, are you sourcing the Leuchter report, and the data around that?
 
jack said:
Where are the deportation records Dan? Where were these millions of people deported? Who took them in, because to be deported, they have to be deported somewhere?
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Eastern europe, primarily Poland, is where most of the deported Jews ended up. Many more emigrated from Germany. Adolf Eichmann is supposed to have kept records of the exact numbers and destinations of the deported, and as soon as I can find a link to that information, I'll provide it.

Back it up. Because there must be some record somewhere of such a mass deportation. I certainly have never seen a shred of it anywhere, and the punchcard recors said what "typhus" right?
Click to expand...

I wouldn't know what the punch card records said -- according to all the information I've seen on them so far, they were used for the purpose of cataloguing prisoners coming into the camps, not those leaving them.

There was no mass exodus of jews from germany TO anywhere. Prove otherwise.
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Site detailing Jewish emigration from Germany from 1933-1939.

Saying you don't have to simply means there isn't any evidence to back it up, other than your frustration over the Holocaust being some sort of gruesome double standard that's being perpetrated on the world.
Click to expand...

I don't mind proving that Jewish persons were deported and/or emigrated from Germany -- I've never before encountered anyone who contended that they weren't deported en masse.

What I don't have to prove is that there was not a genocide -- it's up to those claiming that there was one to prove that it happened.

Why is this 6 million or nothing rhetoric so imprtant to you? That's what I don't understand.
Click to expand...

Because the six million figure is still paraded around as a fact, when it's a matter of record that it's pure invention.

Then there's the rhetoric of intent from their leader himself.
Click to expand...

Intent doesn't prove culpability. How many times do you have to be told that? Think of all the southern whites who probably repeated, numerous times, that they would have liked to kill Martin Luther King, Jr. -- does that prove that they all did it?

Copies of the pics, sure I'll digh them up..I've still got some around somewhere, and as far as whether orr not my uncle came "forward", I assure you he's not interested in changing anyone's mind about whether or not what he experienced was actually what he experienced.
Click to expand...

Well, maybe he should have -- if his proof is as incontrovertible as you seem to think, he could have laid this entire issue to rest permanently before it ever arose.

Now...deportation records please. I want to see the proof that this was just a big round up and expulsion.
Click to expand...

And you shall have whatever I can lay my hands on. ;)
 
It's also interesting to note that, according to the site I cited above, there were only just over half a million Jews in Germany in 1933, and that there were only 163,00 in 1941. So where did all those other Jews who were supposedly exterminated come from? They weren't there in 1933, let alone 1941, when the exterminations supposedly got rolling.
 
Using Leuchter as a source debases your argument He was never a scientist, and admitted making shit up.
 
What about Leuchter's refutation, when confronted with the actual science and data?
 
there were 4 million polish jews btw, you forgot them, and probably 3 million in France that you also forgot. Polish deportation was pretty close to 100 percent, as was france. Then there's the millions of soviet jews.

between 11 and 25 million people were killed by the germans between 1937 and 1945, so this is less about the "6 million"

1935 census estimates around 100 million jews, 35 percent of which lived in the german influence.

1950 estimates are around 90 million, so you figure that one out.
 
Occupational Distribution of the Jewish Population in Various
European Countries During the 1930s

Source. World Jewish Congress Submission to the London Conference on Nazi Gold
Nazi Gold. London: HMSO, 1997, pp. 735-737

In Yugoslavia, where Jews represented 0.5% of the population, its occupational distribution in 1930 was as follows:

Agriculture Handicraft Commerce Liberal Professions White Collar Workers
3% 13% 37% 8% 25%

In Czechoslovakia, where the Jews represented 2.4% of the total population, the percentages of Jews and non-Jews engaged in gainful occupations (without agriculture), were as follows:

Transport and Communication Industry and Handicraft Commerce and Credit Public Service and Liberal Professions Rentiers and Others
Jews
Non-Jews
2.2
6.0
22.2
51.7
46.7
10.1
8.3
6.7
17.8
16.4


Among the Jews in Czechoslovakia, 56.1% were proprietors of business enterprises, independent professionals or persons of independent means, as compared with 32.5% among the non-Jewish population. Among gainfully employed Jews, 20.8% were salaried employees; among non-Jews, 7.8%. Wage earners constituted 23.1% of persons gainfully employed as against 60.1% of non-Jews.

In Hungary the Jews formed about 5.1% of the total population (1930), but constituted different ratios in various economic branches:

Trade and Credit
Industry
Liberal Professions
Independent Workers Employees Physical Workers Independent Workers Office Employees Physical Workers
45.6 47.6 29.1 11 33.4 5.6 26

The occupational distribution of the Jewish and non-Jewish population in 1930 was as follows:

Trade and Credit Public Service and Professions Industry and Handicraft Agriculture
Jews
Non-Jews
44.9
4.5
8.2
4.7
32.0
21.5
2.7
53.5


In Poland where the Jewish population came to 9.8%, the occupational structure of the Jews and non-Jews engaged in gainful occupations in 1931 was as follows:

Crafts and Industry Commerce and Credit Transport and Communication Public Service and Liberal Professions Agriculture
Jews
Non-Jews
42.2
16.9
36.6
3.5
4.5
3.5
6.2
9.3
4.4
67.5


In Romania, where the Jews represented 4.2% of the total population, the professional structure of the Jews and non-Jews engaged in gainful occupations (without agriculture) was as follows:

Industry and Handicraft Credit and Commerce Public Service and Liberal Profession Communication and Transport
Jews
Non-Jews
34.8
47.5
51.5
18.1
2.9
13.4
2.6
10.1


The occupational distribution of the Jewish population in Germany differed considerably from that of the total German population. This is evident from the following figures on the occupational distribution of the Jewish population and the total number of gainfully employed persons as of June 16, 1933.

Agriculture and Forrestry Industry and Handicrafts Commerce and Transportation Public and Private
Percentage of gainfully employed 1.7
23.1
61.3
12.5

Percentage of total gainfully employed 28.9
40.4
18.4
8.4


The social position of the Jews in the various economic branches was also different from that of the total population. Only 16.4% of the total of German gainfully employed persons were independent, but 46% among the Jews. The figures for employees (white collar workers) were 12.5% and 33.5% respectively, and for manual workers 46.3% and 8.7% respectively. The Jews were better represented in the liberal professions than the average population, e.g., while the Jews constituted 0.74% of all gainfully employed persons, their proportion in the total number of physicians, lawyers and notaries public, and dentists was 10.8%, 16.25% and 8.59% respectively.

In Austria out of 191, 481 professing Jews (1934), 176,034 lived in Vienna. Their occupational distribution was as follows:

Industry and Handicraft Commerce and Traffic Public Service and Liberal Professions
Jews
Non-Jews
23.4

48.5
54.5

25.1
20.1

11.1
 
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